Author Topic: Why bother?  (Read 25137 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2019, 12:47:25 PM »
I just don't understand the hostility to even making the attempt.

Air sim 'puritans.' I used to be one, myself. It's almost as if letting players in that didn't invest in a joystick first would pollute or ruin the game. Now I don't care if they can fly with a game controller, mouse or a hair curler and like the game enough to help pay to keep it alive and kicking.

That being said, we all know that AH allows for mouse flight. Maybe there's worry that a separate 'for mouse only' arena might out-populate the arena full of guys who've made this a lifetime hobby and invested in very expensive HOTAS gear to maintain an edge. What's it matter? Either it'll be an arena that drives revenue or an arena that has a couple of guys that haven't bought a joystick (even the cheapo kind like mine) yet.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2019, 12:57:57 PM »
Simply put, let's say HT puts in the effort.  New guy logs in, sees

Melee arena (89/1000)
Mouse Only Arena(5/1000)

Was it worth it?  If a change can't be integrated into the MA, a side arena is unlikely to be able to hit critical mass for fun.  Heck, depending what people are up to, sometimes the MA doesn't hit critical mass for fun for people in the air.

Wiley.

That's one possible outcome.

Another might be, the new use is detected as only having a mouse and a dialog box pops up welcoming them and suggesting as a mouse-only user they first try the Mouse-Pilot Arena.  They see that dialog before they even get to the normal clipboard. In there they can fly in a reasonably level playing field against other mouse-pilots and you could even populate the with additional AI targets that are toned-down to mouse-pilot appropriate levels.  They might also then go try the melee and get slaughtered helplessly. They can at least go back to the mouse arena and so maybe they won't leave completely within 30 min.

Keep in mind,  you probably are seeing more mouse-only players  EVERY MONTH, MONTH AFTER MONTH, than there are current subscribers total.

If 10% of those give the Mouse-Pilot Arena a try, you might see:

Melee arena (89/1000)
Mouse Only Arena(300/1000)

Maybe some of those will stay for a full two-week trial.  Maybe they will tell friends about a fun game they found.  Maybe some will decide to also buy a joystick and try the melee. 

Maybe some will subscribe.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 01:02:02 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2019, 01:05:20 PM »
That's one possible outcome.

Another might be, the new use is detected as only having a mouse and a dialog box pops up welcoming them and suggesting as a mouse-only user they first try the Mouse-Pilot Arena.  They see that dialog before they even get to the normal clipboard. In there they can fly in a reasonably level playing field against other mouse-pilots and you could even populate the with additional AI targets that are toned-down to mouse-pilot appropriate levels.  They might also then go try the melee and get slaughtered helplessly. They can at least go back to the mouse arena and so maybe they won't leave completely within 30 min.

Keep in mind,  you probably are seeing more mouse-only players  EVERY MONTH, MONTH AFTER MONTH, than there are total current subscribers total.

If 10% of those give the Mouse-Pilot Arena a try, you might see:

Melee arena (89/1000)
Mouse Only Arena(300/1000)

Maybe some of those will stay for a full two-week trial.  Maybe they will tell friends about a fun game they found.  Maybe some will decide to also buy a joystick and try the melee. 

Maybe some will subscribe.

This is all predicated on the idea that they log in and get slaughtered by vets because they have mice, then leave.

Of those 3000, how many of them got off the ground?  How many got on the runway?  How many were able to communicate with anybody before they logged?

This is about the same as the people saying the new guys left because of the toxic people in the community.  How many of those new people even get to the point of being exposed to what you're saying they're leaving over?

We've been told the number of people passing through and that they don't have joysticks.  What we haven't been told is why they leave.

Wiley.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2019, 01:09:33 PM »
What we haven't been told is why they leave.

Well, if more of them would fill out the feedback form ......

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2019, 01:14:56 PM »
This is all predicated on the idea that they log in and get slaughtered by vets because they have mice, then leave.

Of those 3000, how many of them got off the ground?  How many got on the runway?  How many were able to communicate with anybody before they logged?


Lets say Hitech fixes all that. 

Let's say he adds step by step walk through for a mouse pilot teaching them everything they need to do to get off the ground and fly with a mouse.

Let's say every mouse pilot is assigned a personal trainer for their first week to help them get up to speed and baby sit them every second for the first week.

Do you think the average mouse pilot, rare virtuosos aside,  will have a good user experience or feel there is a fair level playing field in the melee?

You are well experienced in the game.  Would you be willing to fly in the melee for the next year with only a mouse?  How much fun, with your years of experience and understanding all the mechanics and how to communicate and ask questions, how much fun would you find flying a mouse against the current melee population for say a year as a test?







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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2019, 01:18:19 PM »
Let's say he adds step by step walk through for a mouse pilot teaching them everything they need to do to get off the ground and fly with a mouse.

Like this (it's one of the videos incorporated in the interface)?


Offline CptTrips

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2019, 01:28:15 PM »
Like this (it's one of the videos incorporated in the interface)?



Yeah, but people are ancy to get in the game and play. 

I always prefer games that let me do it while they are explaining.  OJT.

That video did remind me that bombers (and vehicles) are probably something they could do in the melee with mouse only and be competitive.  But that is probably not most people first choice.  Most people probably try a fighter.

:salute




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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2019, 01:30:42 PM »
Yeah, but people are ancy to get in the game and play. 

I always prefer games that let me do it while they are explaining.  OJT.

That video did remind me that bombers (and vehicles) are probably something they could do in the melee with mouse only and be competitive.  But that is probably not most people first choice.  Most people probably try a fighter.

:salute

It plays from the clipboard map extension so I see no reason for it to prevent them from doing while it plays.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2019, 01:37:22 PM »
It plays from the clipboard map extension so I see no reason for it to prevent them from doing while it plays.

You could.

Another way is the in-game gated walk-through.  Most people have probably already had experience with this mode.

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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2019, 01:39:04 PM »
Dale, its never quite good enough.  :D

Offline Spikes

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2019, 01:45:14 PM »
Dale, its never quite good enough.  :D
Is it really such a bad thing to have new ideas that could improve the game?
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #101 on: May 17, 2019, 01:48:13 PM »
Is it really such a bad thing to have new ideas that could improve the game?

Like the idea I keep seeing that suggests there be some sort of training added to the game for beginning players?  :D

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2019, 01:51:44 PM »
It plays from the clipboard map extension so I see no reason for it to prevent them from doing while it plays.

It is not enough.  It is more than we had, it is WAY less than most other games on the market do.  It's got to be in game, and walk them through setup.  A couple of the better ones I've seen were in Elite Dangerous and DCS.  I've also seen FPS's that basically went "Ok, look up.  Now down.  Now left.  Now right.  Start your engine." and just mapped whatever you did, then said, "To change this stuff later go here in the menu."

Wiley.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2019, 01:56:09 PM »
Like the idea I keep seeing that suggests there be some sort of training added to the game for beginning players?  :D
But clearly it is not good enough if players are not sticking around.

Something I've seen other games do are a literal walkthrough of how to fly. Optional onscreen tutorials would not hurt, especially for a game as complex as ours (the entire assortment of keyboard binds where every key has some sort of function, rather than a FPS that's WASD, 123, and click.

PUBG has a help screen that you can leave up while playing that says what each button does. Might not be a bad idea for us, make the transparency adjustable and it can be turned off in preferences.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2019, 01:57:10 PM »
As I said, Dale, its never quite good enough.  :D

(Funny how not one person in the discourse about how training films need to be incorporated into the game once said, "Oh, I didn't know HT added these. Well, good." Instead we immediately get "No, that's not good enough.")

 :old: