Author Topic: Russians Mad  (Read 4624 times)

Offline John Galt

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2019, 11:46:23 PM »
If Winston Churchill had his way both Jew hating countries would of killed eactother. That would of been great.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2019, 05:40:43 AM »
There was a few battles in Italy. Rome being liberated June 5 1944.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2019, 09:25:07 AM »
Lmfao  :rofl


Please provide me one example of a Nazi or Fascist policy from the actual manifesto that Mussolini or Hitler wrote that relates to conservativism ideology. I'll wait.
A few examples:

Business and government merged power.
Fetishization of police and military.
Legal dominance of the majority group over minority groups.
Suppression of unions.
Use of police force to suppress opposition movements.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2019, 09:39:07 AM »
A few examples:

Business and government merged power.
Fetishization of police and military.
Legal dominance of the majority group over minority groups.
Suppression of unions.
Use of police force to suppress opposition movements.

A perfect example of what our schools crank out today.

This video may help to get you back on track, but usually people that have been so badly misled refuse to accept that they have been lied to for so long.



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Offline perdue3

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2019, 09:43:15 AM »
A perfect example of what our schools crank out today.

This video may help to get you back on track, but usually people that have been so badly misled refuse to accept that they have been lied to for so long.



You confused me. Is Karnak's post the example of bad schooling or the video?
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2019, 09:51:26 AM »
You confused me. Is Karnak's post the example of bad schooling or the video?

Well, the video isn't an example of good schooling, that's for sure.  :old:

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2019, 09:56:03 AM »
I would say the author of the video is better informed than the general public, but like I said it is very hard for most people to accept that they have been misinformed their entire lives.
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2019, 10:22:33 AM »
I would say the author of the video is better informed than the general public, but like I said it is very hard for most people to accept that they have been misinformed their entire lives.

So, the video is accurate?
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2019, 10:27:30 AM »
I would say the author of the video is better informed than the general public, but like I said it is very hard for most people to accept that they have been misinformed their entire lives.

The author gives a slanted view in order to support his opinion, cherry picking and massaging facts from history for political leverage. For instance, he portrays 'bread and circuses' as a demand placed on Rome's power structure by the citizens when it was quite the opposite, being an appeasement or opiate of the masses designed to keep them entertained and distracted. The author jumped the rails right off the bat by insisting that the far right spectrum is anarchy (or complete freedom from government control). Attempting to make his point he shifts Fascism to the far left spectrum alongside Communism (which is what V believes).

A more realistic depiction of the political spectrum would be:



"Far-right politics includes but is not limited to aspects of authoritarianism, anti-communism and nativism.[3] Claims that superior people should have greater rights than inferior people are often associated with the far-right.[10] The far-right has historically favored an elitist society based on its belief in the legitimacy of the rule of a supposed superior minority over the inferior masses.[11] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics

citing:

Hilliard, Robert L. and Michael C. Keith, Waves of Rancor: Tuning in the Radical Right (Armonk, New York: M.E. Sharpe Inc., 1999, p. 43

Oliver H. Woshinsky. Explaining Politics: Culture, Institutions, and Political Behavior. (Oxon, England; New York City, United States: Routledge, 2008) p. 154 & p. 155.

When the author talks of Oligarchies and how they come to pass he is lost in his own bias.

Now, I know your stance appears to be that of poor education in the U.S. and I might even agree that public schooling prior to University level has indeed slipped with many of those students going on to receive a 'masters of internet browsing' but the example provided via that video is just that.


Offline Chalenge

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2019, 10:36:58 AM »
Using Wikipedia to reinforce your point is invalid. Wikipedia is mostly comprised of information straight out of the text books that have constructed the lie.

What I am saying is that the educational system has been leaning left since Woodrow Wilson. It has steadily gotten worse until now. The same thing that happened to Rome is happening here. And no, your diagram buys into the same old (yawn) lie that our schools have been teaching for 100 years. This is why the country is headed hard left. Even the people promoted as "right wing" are not conservative at all. The one conservative in our last election was knocked off the stage in the first month of debates. No one in Congress today is a true conservative. Not one. This is how far afield thinking has gotten and today very few people can see that. Sure, people love their country, but are they holding firm the foundations of the Constitution? Not even close.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2019, 10:48:46 AM »
Using Wikipedia to reinforce your point is invalid. Wikipedia is mostly comprised of information straight out of the text books that have constructed the lie.

What I am saying is that the educational system has been leaning left since Woodrow Wilson. It has steadily gotten worse until now. The same thing that happened to Rome is happening here. And no, your diagram buys into the same old (yawn) lie that our schools have been teaching for 100 years. This is why the country is headed hard left. Even the people promoted as "right wing" are not conservative at all. The one conservative in our last election was knocked off the stage in the first month of debates. No one in Congress today is a true conservative. Not one. This is how far afield thinking has gotten and today very few people can see that. Sure, people love their country, but are they holding firm the foundations of the Constitution? Not even close.

While I may agree as to the demise of true conservatism I find your lack of faith in higher education rather disappointing. I am presently attending one of the most conservative campuses in the U.S. and, by and large, the professors here present a balanced and fair education. Writing off information because it comes from a text book written by someone who spent a great deal of time learning the subject is the height of willful arrogant ignorance and I hope you can shake yourself free from that. Does this mean that I think all professors are free of bias? Of course not. For the most part even they admit such and provide their students with opposing viewpoints for them to decide. But I will still take valid and in depth text book sources over Youtube videos like the one you provided, any day.

Offline perdue3

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2019, 10:50:40 AM »
Using Wikipedia to reinforce your point is invalid. Wikipedia is mostly comprised of information straight out of the text books that have constructed the lie.

What I am saying is that the educational system has been leaning left since Woodrow Wilson. It has steadily gotten worse until now. The same thing that happened to Rome is happening here. And no, your diagram buys into the same old (yawn) lie that our schools have been teaching for 100 years. This is why the country is headed hard left. Even the people promoted as "right wing" are not conservative at all. The one conservative in our last election was knocked off the stage in the first month of debates. No one in Congress today is a true conservative. Not one. This is how far afield thinking has gotten and today very few people can see that. Sure, people love their country, but are they holding firm the foundations of the Constitution? Not even close.

So, you are saying the definition of the spectrum has altogether shifted? Thus, what was right pre-Wilson is now middle-right? You are not wrong, in this sense, but I cannot completely agree. Also, deeming it "worse" is not objective, that is opinionated. What exactly happened to Rome that is happening here now? I would argue that your 100 years timeline is a bit off. Anti-Intellectualism took a real hold of most of our country in the 1950s, so if anything, it should be seventy years. When you say "textbooks" are you referring to the general idea of textbooks or actual books? The federal government has not issued textbooks, that is left to the states. My state, NC, gives us the option of using the (not a, but the) textbook. Seeing as how I loathe it, I do not use it. This is the case in many states. While I admit that many teachers find it difficult to teach objectively, for the most part the young teachers today are well trained in just that. Because the professors that we had came after the period of Anti-Intellectualism, objectivity is essentially the number one lesson to be learned in the field of history and teaching arts. It has to do with tolerance, awareness, and education, all of which are necessary to be a global citizen. I digress.

I would also ask if you are involved in the public school system. If not, I am not sure how you could make such claims unless you hold surveys often in your town and surrounding towns. If you are, then it seems that you may be a part of the problem as you are teaching with opinion in mind. I also disagree slightly with Arlo's diagram. But, not nearly as much as I disagree with the video (no government = fascism????).
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2019, 10:58:14 AM »
... I disagree with the video (no government = fascism????).

Respectfully, the video contends that no government=anarchy (which it does) but it places that status on the far right spectrum and places Fascism on the far left alongside Communism. That falls contrary to both history and political science and no matter how open-minded I try to approach that statement it just rings false (and intentionally misleading). That's why I think Youtube videos like the one Chalenge provided are irresponsible and dangerous (my opinion).

Offline perdue3

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2019, 11:12:39 AM »
While I may agree as to the demise of true conservatism I find your lack of faith in higher education rather disappointing. I am presently attending one of the most conservative campuses in the U.S. and, by and large, the professors here present a balanced and fair education. Writing off information because it comes from a text book written by someone who spent a great deal of time learning the subject is the height of willful arrogant ignorance and I hope you can shake yourself free from that. Does this mean that I think all professors are free of bias? Of course not. For the most part even they admit such and provide their students with opposing viewpoints for them to decide. But I will still take valid and in depth text book sources over Youtube videos like the one you provided, any day.

Be careful with textbooks. I agree with Chalenge a bit here. I have had textbooks issued to me and seen other textbooks issued to students that were chocked full of nonsense. My previous course, actually, I had to review four different books that were assigned. Two of them I hated and I deemed them very poor pieces of scholarship even though they advanced the field. These books, Storm of Spears by Christopher Matthew being one of them, advanced the field because they add to the literature on the subject (in this case, specific fighting techniques of hoplites). However, his conclusions were all wrong (Ryan). The manner in which he arrived at most of his conclusions were baffling. He also completely ignored other options and methods, which translates to a poor methodological academic work. In my review, I slammed it for the most part, although it contributes to the field.

The problem that Chalenge is talking about has to do with ignorance. When history is taught with a bias and that bias is not relayed to the pupils, we get ignorance. Many textbooks that I grew up with championed Andrew Jackson. Whether he was good or bad, is hardly the issue and is certainly something that should not be outright stated in a textbook meant for young minds. Instead, the teacher and textbook should present the facts and allow the pupil to decide. Immanuel Kant comes to mind here. Young minds are easy to manipulate and bad textbooks and biased teachers help to skew perception. We must teach our young people to think for themselves rather than believe anything anyone tells them.

A big part of the problem is indeed the professor. It is up to the professor to choose the textbooks. Keep in mind, at the higher level of education, textbooks are no longer general histories like we have in high school. The professor will either choose a book with his/her bias, because literally everyone on the planet has bias, or specifically choose a book that is a concrete piece of scholarship in that field (i.e. Green, Yenne, Marshall, etc.). But, this discussion is about primary and secondary school textbooks. Most of these are as objective as it gets. They leave things out because of the breadth of the subject (US History, World History, Government, State History, etc.). As an example, 9th Grade World History students spend exactly zero minutes learning about Hannibal Barca. This is unfortunate because of the importance of Hannibal and Carthage to the Roman Republic's growth.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 11:14:54 AM by perdue3 »
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Russians Mad
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2019, 11:13:53 AM »
Respectfully, the video contends that no government=anarchy (which it does) but it places that status on the far right spectrum and places Fascism on the far left alongside Communism. That falls contrary to both history and political science and no matter how open-minded I try to approach that statement it just rings false (and intentionally misleading). That's why I think Youtube videos like the one Chalenge provided are irresponsible and dangerous (my opinion).

I watched it until I saw that graphic, then decided to look at literally anything else. All I know is that I saw 0% government on the far right, immediately closed tab.
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