Figured out how to do skins very well for a test I did a "marine camo" D9

[Red37]

Changes; late-war blue grey cockpit, Nav Lights, 4 differnt colored prop spinners (red/black, white/black, light blue/red, white/red etc..., accurate FW wheel color, accurate propeller color and some more little details inside and out that make it pop. What you guys think about this one, should I send it in?

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aUdvJt-tZ4MLGSdZ4-xZN04iDaKmvM3g/view?usp=sharing
2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XephyIEFX1nOfPIulvnQzlz_R29eAPkB/view?usp=sharing
3. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OZw3r8682Tat9bceuEzTzAzj7JT6GsKy/view?usp=sharing
4. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1osqsotl6qYDM_gkeQ1Ty2AS2AIQXfygm/view?usp=sharing
5. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1blNINHLlfE13__ohwtnCr9hQzP9J_RiK/view?usp=sharing
6. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T2-UmFGAzzQRIaijUdle2JZ3RcTtjdnd/view?usp=sharing

[Vraciu]

Post in Custom Skins.    Be prepared to take some serious constructive criticism. 

It’s a good start but you have a bit more work to do (with some of the markings especially).

[Greebo]

Since Skuzzy retired I have taken over checking skins submissions for the MA, so it is me you will need to convince. Now there are some rules relating to what is allowed for an MA skin and I think your skin breaks one of them. The rules list can be found at the AH Skins Submission Page. If you haven't visited it before you'll need to enter your AH game log-in details to access it.

The rule that I'm referring to is:- "We will only accept skins that were historically used in World War II."
Related to this is the rule:- "Information supplied, about the skin, should be informative as it will be used in the skin display page."

So admittedly these rules are not very clearly written but what they mean is that the skin has to be an accurate representation of a specific aircraft that saw use in WW2. When submitting a skin you need to provide reference material like a reasonable quality photo of the real plane. Also a write up of what is known about the plane's pilot, unit, theatre of combat and so on, both for display on the skins display page but also to help me make sure the plane existed when I assess it. I get the impression from your post that the markings are not based on any real aircraft and that you just made them up. If this is so I would not be able to OK it for use in the MA. If I am wrong and your skin is based on a real plane then ideally you should mention this when posting.

Your skin looks a little odd to me, the basic camouflage is realistically done and weathered but the marking colours are far too bright and saturated and also are not weathered. Compare the red and yellow bands on the fuselage to the squadron number and rudder, they are completely different. To me it looks like you simply pasted some different markings over an existing skin.

Sorry if this seems harsh and I hope it does not put you off skinning. Myself and others are happy to give advice to new skinners but as Vraciu said please post your questions in the Custom Skins forum in future.

[Devil 505]

Well said Greebo.

I'd be happy to offer a proper critique of Red's skin if he indeed wants to attempt skinning an accurate scheme.

[Red37]

    This was my first attempt at a skin and I totally understand the historical value. I have a few "grey area" questions though and you have to admit that plane looked good for a fist attempt. Since you have to use an already made skin to make the export file usually the default skin. If you would let me I would like to make all aluminum (with rivets, panel lines, and no markings basically off the assembly line) planes so it's easier for the artist to start working not having to "erase" the old scheme. After this reply post all my skinning post's will go to the proper area.

- Commemorative Aircraft - Wanted to do Bob Hoover's Rockwell P51? Pilot specific planes, such as Franz Stigler's 109 G2, G6, 262? The Memphis Belle went through a few paintings (I know we dont have the B17-F). Richard Ira Bong the p-38 ace. Pilot specific planes to be more exact. Oh, and would restored planes like (almost restored) B-29 "KeeBird" or p-38 "glasher girl" be eligible among other resto's?

- Captures - Will captured planes make the grade? Usually painted in bright orange or enemy markings removed and swapped with the captures markings  (example captured 190's, 262's, P51's etc...) After all it was Galland that said "give me a squadron of spitfires" to the utter dismay of Der Fuher and I have alot of photo's of both sides (mainly Germany) using captured aircraft in combat. An entire squadron of Luftwaffe p51's were sent into battle. I can provide these vintage pictures.

-Bombers - Can I do the formation lead bombers that were used to round up all the other bombers before the mission? -

-Cockpits - In my studies (I do extensive research on what these planes looked like for my scale models. My "marine D9" (that was just me learning the process) outside paint was not an actual paint scheme but in-fact the cockpit was more accurate than the black look we see now.

- Nav Light's / instrument panel additions - Is it ok to paint in the red, green, and white lights where they belong on the certain aircraft? In the D9 they had a small piece of paper on the gun sight with multiple plane sight settings listed . The D9 had a variable gun sight that you would twist the throttle to adjust your sight ring. So if it's accurate can I add things like that to the instrument panel and surrounding cockpit?

Lastly
- RV8 - what are my restrictions on the RV? It would be an honor to do an Art Scholl livery (the super chipmunk) for the RV along with some dress up fighter schemes.

[Devil 505]

    This was my first attempt at a skin and I totally understand the historical value. I have a few "grey area" questions though and you have to admit that plane looked good for a fist attempt. Since you have to use an already made skin to make the export file usually the default skin. If you would let me I would like to make all aluminum (with rivets, panel lines, and no markings basically off the assembly line) planes so it's easier for the artist to start working not having to "erase" the old scheme. After this reply post all my skinning post's will go to the proper area.

For best results, you would need to create your own template for each plane type. All the elements would be on separate layers which would allow you to change paint colors and markings without losing panel line, rivet, and weathering details. On my skins, the only parts used from the defaults are typically the gear legs, wheels, and some interior bits. But I will do those myself too if I find the default elements inaccurate or just unsatisfactory. In short, if it can be seen from the outside, it is my own work.

- Commemorative Aircraft - Wanted to do Bob Hoover's Rockwell P51? Pilot specific planes, such as Franz Stigler's 109 G2, G6, 262? The Memphis Belle went through a few paintings (I know we dont have the B17-F). Richard Ira Bong the p-38 ace. Pilot specific planes to be more exact. Oh, and would restored planes like (almost restored) B-29 "KeeBird" or p-38 "glasher girl" be eligible among other resto's?

Every skin in the game represents a real combat vehicle as seen when in combat. I advise not using modern restorations as reference as they are nearly always inaccurate to some degree. Non-combat and fictional schemes are not allowed.

- Captures - Will captured planes make the grade? Usually painted in bright orange or enemy markings removed and swapped with the captures markings  (example captured 190's, 262's, P51's etc...) After all it was Galland that said "give me a squadron of spitfires" to the utter dismay of Der Fuher and I have alot of photo's of both sides (mainly Germany) using captured aircraft in combat. An entire squadron of Luftwaffe p51's were sent into battle. I can provide these vintage pictures.

If you skin a captured plane, you must provide proof that it was used in combat while wearing the scheme you depicted. There are a few captured tanks that were skinned and are in game for that reason. A captured plane used for evaluation will not be allowed. For example, an P-51 in German markings.

-Bombers - Can I do the formation lead bombers that were used to round up all the other bombers before the mission? -

Yes, there is already a B-24 skin in game in one of those high visibility schemes. I guess they were close enough to harms way to be considered "combat"

-Cockpits - In my studies (I do extensive research on what these planes looked like for my scale models. My "marine D9" (that was just me learning the process) outside paint was not an actual paint scheme but in-fact the cockpit was more accurate than the black look we see now.

The cockpit files are not included on the standard skin submission page. You may be allowed to edit them and submit those files to HTC another way. Also, I disagree with you with regards to the 190 cockpit color. The default texture is very close to RLM 66, whereas your version is both too light and too blue.

- Nav Light's / instrument panel additions - Is it ok to paint in the red, green, and white lights where they belong on the certain aircraft? In the D9 they had a small piece of paper on the gun sight with multiple plane sight settings listed . The D9 had a variable gun sight that you would twist the throttle to adjust your sight ring. So if it's accurate can I add things like that to the instrument panel and surrounding cockpit?

Adding nav/formation lights is fine. Alterations to the gunsight texture falls into the same category as the other cockpit textures. The actual reticle can be changed, but that is done on the user end and is not part of the skin.

Lastly
- RV8 - what are my restrictions on the RV? It would be an honor to do an Art Scholl livery (the super chipmunk) for the RV along with some dress up fighter schemes.

Anything goes on the RV-8 as long as the images are not vulgar or racist.

[Greebo]

The problem with lightly modifying an existing skin is you are taking what is 90% someone else's work and putting your name on it. The accepted convention here is that you can re-use the internal parts of the skin (wheels, gear, internal bays etc) but that you recreate the external areas from scratch. This means you making layers for rivets, panel lines and weathering as well as the basic camo scheme and markings. This takes a long time to do. The good news is once you have all these other layers you can reuse them on any other skins you do for that shape.

Based on my recollection of what Pyro, Skuzzy and HT have said on these matters in the past here's what I think can and can't be submitted for the MA.

Commemorative aircraft:- No, the skin has to be of a genuine WW2 aircraft as it appeared while it was in service. Modern warbird restorations are often inaccurately painted and are usually too shiny or too clean to pass as the original aircraft. If the warbird didn't exist in WW2 (i.e. it is a fantasy aircraft) then its not allowed at all. If it did it should be skinned as it appeared in WW2, so usually with exhaust soot and paint chips etc.

An entirely bare metal aircraft would only be allowed if it saw squadron service in that form. For example Lyric1 found me photos of some Spitfires that had all their paint removed to save weight so it could intercept high flying Ju-86 reconnaissance aircraft.

Captures:- In general no but with exceptions. HTC do not want skins of captured aircraft that were used for test purposes. They have let a skin of a captured T-34/85 repainted in German markings and colours in but these were used in combat by the Wehrmacht in large numbers not just for testing. I have skinned Japanese and Soviet variants of the C-47 but these were license-built aircraft and again used in large numbers. There are a few stories of individual captured aircraft being re-used in combat against there original owners but unless this was done in squadron numbers its very unlikely to get in.

Formation ships:- No again, sorry. Skuzzy did let one of these into the game after someone put a huge amount of work into it but said he would not let any more in. These aircraft were unarmed and never saw combat in that form so weren't used for the role they are in the game.

Cockpits:- No, the required files aren't listed on the submissions page. We did use to be able to paint cockpit skins but HTC dropped them in order to reduce the amount of data skins were requiring. I think I was the only skinner who ever did a cockpit skin anyway. You are allowed to repaint the pilot on most of the older skins though.

RV8:- Yes and no. This aircraft is listed on the submissions page so in theory you could submit a skin for it. The problem is that the RV8 is disabled in the MA so no one could use the skin there. Only possible use is if RV8 skins would work in a player-hosted arena, not sure if that is the case though.

Here's a few other "grey areas".

Training aircraft skins:- Only if they were likely to have seen combat. For example in 1945 Japanese training squadrons were sometimes used to intercept enemy aircraft so things like orange painted N1K2s are allowed. Allied or German training skins generally aren't.

Aircraft variant substitutions:- This is sometimes allowed if the substituted aircraft is not too different in shape, performance or original use to the base aircraft. For example:-

Armed photo-recon Spits can be skinned if the camera port is painted on but unarmed ones can't. The armed ones just had a camera fitted but the unarmed ones had a completely different internal fit and purpose.

The razorback La-5 is visibly different to our cut down fuselage La-5FN and so can't be skinned. However the La-5F is virtually the same shape and performance and so it can. The B-17F and B-24D are not allowed because of the different shape (and armament) so no Memphis Belle I'm afraid. Before the P-47M was introduced we were not allowed to skin them on the much lower performance P-47D-40 shape even though the aircraft was identical externally.

Basically though, if in doubt ask in the forum before you do any work on a skin.

[Red37]

Yes sir clear as a bell thank you but you forgot the RV. What are my options there? Devil seems he has experiance with this. He said "anything goes on the RV except vulgar bad taste skins." Is this ok with you also?

[Red37]

Luftwaffe P51 squadron (link below). I guess we cant it but here it is. Also seen Luft. B17 squadron but im just going to leave it alone.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi3i4Gk_t3iAhUWoZ4KHScVA9YQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FHistoryPorn%2Fcomments%2F2tkuv0%2Fp51d_mustangs_captured_by_the_germans_in_flight%2F&psig=AOvVaw27YLW8YT9_TPsdScmt8jgo&ust=1560224208969207

[Devil 505]

Those Mustangs are from the post-war film "Fighter Squadron" which featured P-47's as the protagonist's aircraft and the P-51's represented "Messerschmitts"

[perdue3]

And man is that film terrible.

[Red37]

OH MY GOD! Now the internet is passing these off as "a Nazi mustang squad." LMAFO thanks for telling me.

[perdue3]

OH MY GOD! Now the internet is passing these off as "a Nazi mustang squad." LMAFO thanks for telling me.

The Internet? Even in that reddit thread someone said it was from the film.

[Vraciu]

And man is that film terrible.

I happen to like it.   

[perdue3]

I happen to like it.