Author Topic: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open  (Read 393 times)

Offline Brooke

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Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« on: August 23, 2019, 12:15:47 AM »
A fight for the fate of Italy!

The allies are stalled at the Gustav Line, and it's time to try a bold but risky invasion behind the axis lines at Anzio.

Time for the Spitfires, P-47's, P-40's, and B-26s of the XII Tactical Air Force to see what it can do against veteran Luftwaffe in Bf 109's and FW 190's on the doorstep of Rome, the Eternal City.

It runs October 5, 12, 19, 26 at 3 pm Eastern in Special Events 2 arena.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2019, 12:16:49 AM »
If you can fly in a few of the frames, please register here:

https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario

Please recruit your friends and enemies alike!  :aok

Offline Hajo

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2019, 09:53:26 AM »
The day before D-Day my Father marched through Rome.  Yep.............he fought at Anzio.
- The Flying Circus -

Offline KCDitto

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2019, 01:26:16 PM »
I am going to miss two of these frames, maybe 3, including the first one.

Someone needs to step up and take on the leadership role for the Luftwaffe please.

Thank You
Ditto
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2019, 02:49:17 PM »
The day before D-Day my Father marched through Rome.  Yep.............he fought at Anzio.

Hajo -- come fly with us over Anzio!

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2019, 10:19:53 PM »
I had high hopes for Anzio, but this looks terrible. It repeats every problem from the Kuban and Nuisance Raid scenarios. Looks like I'll find a more worthwhile way to spend my October Saturdays, like watching the leaves change color.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 11:15:24 PM »
I think that you are going to miss out on great fun.

I'm very much looking forward to this one and think it will have lots of action.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 02:05:52 AM »
Devil, come on in.  You'll get lots of fighter combat and bomber intercepts.   It will be glorious fun.  :aok

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2019, 08:39:43 PM »
Devil, come on in.  You'll get lots of fighter combat and bomber intercepts.   It will be glorious fun.  :aok

No, Brooke, it won't be. And even if I did have fun, it would be in spite of this design and not because of it. Unlike most players, I can separate how much fun I personally have from how well the event is designed. The Axis players have a very low potential for fun gameplay. I'm not sure the Allies will fare too much better in this regard, but they will at least have all the advantages of plane matchups, target selection, available bases/spawns, freedom of movement, and scoring. The Allies will dominate this event in every regard and consequently, have more fun.

I do not understand how you fail to recognize the serious faults in this design - especially since you have made many of these same mistakes before and have been told by myself and other players about these kind of problems.

Here are my main problems:

1. Everything about the targets is chosen poorly. They are too spread out and the relative distances to the airspawns and bases favors the Allies. This is especially egregious with the air spawns since you chose where they are placed. The allies have a greater freedom of movement because of the fact that one air spawn is nearly equally distant from the main Allied target cluster and the outlaying target while having the luxury of a second air spawn farther west. The Axis air spawn is 2/3 of a sector farther away from their targets then the allies are with their nearest air spawn. Not only are the Axis forced to travel longer distances, but they have fewer direct routes to target areas. Regardless of radar settings and minimum bomber altitudes, this is unbalanced.

I added some circles to your map to illustrate this point. Each ring is the same, with the radius equaling the distance from center of 9,12,9(airspawn) to A109. This is the shortest distance from an air spawn to a target.



For balance, either the 9,12,9 spawn should be moved to 9,12,3; or the Axis spawn should be moved to 10,14,5.

Furthermore, The target areas are far too large for the player numbers you will have. I does not matter if you say that the "battle area is the same as Dnieper". It did not work then and it won't work now. You don't have the numbers to make defense a viable strategy with 2 target areas per side.


2. How exactly does 6 190F-8's equal the potential damage of 7 B-26's and 6 P-40F's? You tried this obviously imbalanced strike force in "Hell Over the Hinterland" and it was a colossal failure then. I expect Anzio to be no different.

Now I understand the historical limitations you are dealing with as any Axis bomber would be purely fiction. But having over double the number of attackers available to the Allies is not the solution. You can claim(correctly) that the P-40 is a lesser fighterbomber than a 190F, but it would take a ridiculous amount of 190's to balance the B-26's. The ability to score points on the offense severely favors the Allies based on pure numbers alone.

Maybe 7 B-25C's and 6 P-40F's would be balanced? But the Allied players hold such an unreasonable stigma over the B-25C that you won't entertain the thought of including that plane even if does make more sense for balance.

Another solution would be to change the event to an Allied only attack design.


3. The B-26 itself presents a problem. I believe you underestimate how strong it is against a mid-war Luftwaffe plane set.

These are the B-26 loss rate numbers from Pantelleria.

Frame 1
63 B-26's(21 sets) 0 shot down (not intercepted at all?)

Frame 2
39 B-26's(13 sets) 17 shot down. 46% loss rate

Frame 3
45 B-26's(15 sets) 5 shot down. 11% loss rate

Frame 4
45 B-26's(15 sets) 3 Shot down. 7% loss rate.

Frame 2-4 Averages.
43 B-26's.  8.3 Shot down. 18% average loss rate.

Even if we assume as a worst case scenario that the Frame 2 numbers will be typical in this event, the scoring dictates that the Allies will turn a profit every single sortie if just four B-26 pilots drop successfully.

Let's look at another factor from Pantelleria Frame 2. Of the 13 sets taken, 6 resulted in either a totally missed drop or total destruction of the set before the target. The other 7 sets dropped successfully. They earned 17.5 bombing points over the frame using this points system while only losing 17 for planes lost. That is not even factoring in the 2 kills they also achieved. That's 19.5 total points gained for a loss of only 17 in a worst case scenario for the B-26's.

You cannot realistically expect the Axis to shoot down 50% of the B-26 every mission. That simply will not happen and that is what will be required for them to achieve a points advantage in this aspect.

Defending against the B-26's is a losing proposition as is not defending against them. The Axis cannot win under any circumstances.

If you can not or will not create a balanced event, why should I or anyone else participate in it?
Kommando Nowotny

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Offline Chris79

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2019, 09:24:33 PM »
Have the F8ís hit town targets,


Chuikov

Offline Chris79

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 09:28:37 PM »
FYI Iíll lead the F8s if no one better wants to


Chuikov

Offline hazmatt

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 10:06:12 PM »
Wish I could play but I'll be working those days and times.

Looks like it's gonna be a tough go for the axis looking at the plane set. Will be interesting to see the outcome.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 12:15:00 AM »
Devil, sorry you won't join us.  Maybe next time.

I put your design comments in a separate topic (titled "Devil comments") so that we can continue that discussion there if you'd like, as the purpose of this topic is for registration and participation in the event.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2019, 04:25:16 AM »
FYI Iíll lead the F8s if no one better wants to

Who is better?  I'd go for Chuikov!  :aok

Offline TWCAxew

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Re: Announcing "Anzio", October Scenario, registration open
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2019, 01:52:48 AM »
I have a problem registering for the last open spot for the P-47's. When i hit register it jumps to a blackish screen and hangs there. Is the registration page broken?

Cheers,
Dutch
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