Author Topic: Devil comments  (Read 1846 times)

Offline Brooke

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2019, 12:56:45 PM »
Is Devil from New York?  I think he said he's from New York, or at least somewhere out east.

Devil, I'll buy you a New York-style pizza at your favorite pizza place if you play!  :aok

No joke -- pizza on me if you join up.  :aok

Offline swareiam

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2019, 02:02:47 PM »
Is Devil from New York?  I think he said he's from New York, or at least somewhere out east.

Devil, I'll buy you a New York-style pizza at your favorite pizza place if you play!  :aok

No joke -- pizza on me if you join up.  :aok

Hey! That's bribery!  :furious  No wait...  :confused:

That's legal here.  :rofl
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2019, 02:23:23 PM »
Can Ar 234's launch torps?  Let's do it!  :aok
They were capable of carrying a Bombentorpedo...off to the Wishlist I go!
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2019, 02:55:49 PM »
There are three reasons why B-25C's are not in the scenario.

First is that bomber pilots don't want to fly B-25C's anymore in scenarios.  That's a major issue because you guys who want B-25C's in scenarios will never fly them, fill them, or keep them full for the whole event.  I understand.  I've flown B-25C's a lot in events.  They suck.  Totally.  Even against Ki-43's they suck, let alone against 190's and 109's with gondolas.  B-25H's (and B-25J's, if we had them) are a very different matter, however.

Second is that, after about April-March, according to references I have, the B-25's were majority J's; and B-25J's and B-26's are about the same (about the same speed, same defensive armament).

Third is that half the medium bombers in XII Tactical Air Force were B-26's anyway.

Anyway, the good news is that you can consider all the bombers in this event to be B-25J's if you want.  :aok

Brooke, you do understand that the 12th AF B25 Groups had B25Gs & Hs during that time frame before Js right?  Just saying. Maybe the Luftwaffe would prefer 75mm cannons :)   

As an example, the 310th BG fired 1,100 75mm shells in February 44 alone.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 03:30:56 PM by Guppy35 »
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2019, 11:32:07 PM »
Is Devil from New York?  I think he said he's from New York, or at least somewhere out east.

Devil, I'll buy you a New York-style pizza at your favorite pizza place if you play!  :aok

No joke -- pizza on me if you join up.  :aok

Massachusetts.
However I doubt pizza will be a deciding factor.

In your defense, gone are the days of 25k B-17's. After years, you have at least acknowledged that suck a setup is simply unfun to play, especially with our smaller numbers.


But to be frank the scenario looks rather unfun to me, and I would not be playing even if I'd finished building my tower. For me there's no specific scoring issue on this one in principle (I would argue that you must factor average bomber kill ratio against their scoring, they may frequently get slaughtered, but it still comes at a cost to us, and thus they are not quite a net 0). No the problem is simply that I don't enjoy event after event of bomber interception.


However I think one of the core problems (greatly exacerbated by our limited plane set) is that most events we run are mid-late war with the Axis historically getting absolutely hammered. It was February 2017 in Hinterland that the Axis were nominally last on the offensive (more in spirit than anything else, a constraint of our plane sets and circumstances of the event), or Feb 2016 in (only the first frame) of Southern Conquest that the Axis was on the offensive.


Prior to that, it was 2013.

Broadly speaking we are almost always on defense (which I know you will protest gives an advantage, but outside of situational cases this simply does not pan out in the actual combat)

I know we really don't have the plane set to do Battle of France, 1940/41 N. Africa, etc. But hell, run a Kursk battle instead Dnepier, run a Backhand Blow, do Operation Watchtower and Gualcanal.

Hell, with the battleships, we have a LOT more options for naval battles. You can set up Kirishima (and Hiei if she survives the first frame) vs Washington and SoDak.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2019, 01:21:17 AM »
Massachusetts.

Massachusetts-style pizza then.  :aok

Quote
but it still comes at a cost to us, and thus they are not quite a net 0).

That's where applying the scoring system to past scenarios comes in -- to see how it all works out really.

Quote
I don't enjoy event after event of bomber interception.

I hear you.  I like variety very much, myself.

Because we have players who are fighter only *and* players who are bomber only, we put both in.  Bombers could be on either side, though, or both.  Even though there are bombers in every scenario, many tactical-oriented scenarios don't have everyone doing bomber intercept.  There are some I've flown in where I didn't even see enemy bombers much, let alone attack them.  Other fighter groups were the bomber interceptors.

Quote
most events we run are mid-late war with the Axis historically getting absolutely hammered.

Even if axis side historically was way outnumbered, we of course don't do it that way in the event.

Still, out of the past 15 scenarios, 1/3 were these, where the axis was historically not way outnumbered:

Nuisance Raids, 1942
Tunisia Feb. 1943
Southern Conquest starting 1942
Battle of Britain, 1940
Med Maelstrom, 1942

Quote
we are almost always on defense

Out of past 15 scenarios, LW was on offense 60% of the time.

Nuisance Raids
Pantelleria
Kuban
(if you count attack, then Hinterland also)
Tunisia
Dnieper
Southern Conquest
The Pacific War
BoB 2013
Med. Maelstrom

Quote
run a Kursk battle instead Dnepier, run a Backhand Blow, do Operation Watchtower and Gualcanal.

Sounds good!  Let's get some of those in the mix for voting for the February Scenario!  :aok

Quote
Hell, with the battleships, we have a LOT more options for naval battles. You can set up Kirishima (and Hiei if she survives the first frame) vs Washington and SoDak.

The problem with things other than airplanes is getting players who will register for it, show up every week, and take it seriously.  (That's why we don't have any tanks in scenarios anymore.)  If that were certain, though, I'd be all for it.

In fact, I've thought about how awesome it would be to have "Neptune's Inferno" event:

1:  Battle of Savo Island
Night ship battle.
allies work to protect transport areas of tulagi and guadalcanal
axis can come in however it wants

2.  battle of the eastern solomons
Carriers plus battleships, cruisers, etc.; Cactus Air Force

3.  Air battles around Henderson
Cactus Air Force vs. IJ from Rabaul.

4. battle of cape esperance
Ship-ship battle.

5.  Battle for Henderson Field
ij has 2 cv's vs. cactus

6. Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands
carrier battle

7. Naval Battle of Guadalcanal

8.  Battle of Tassafaronga
ship-ship battle

Some of the stages are ship-ship with no aircraft, so those could be fought between the folks doing the naval part of it (2-3 guys per battleship, 2-3 guys per cruiser, 1 guy per DD).  Stages with lots of air combat could be run like a scenario frame.  So, even though it is 8 stages, it wouldn't be like 8 frames of a scenario, with the pilots flying 8 frames.

I'm not sure we could get people to fill such a thing up and run it these days.  So, it's more of a fond idea at this point.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2019, 07:36:03 PM »
Is Devil from New York?  I think he said he's from New York, or at least somewhere out east.

Devil, I'll buy you a New York-style pizza at your favorite pizza place if you play!  :aok

No joke -- pizza on me if you join up.  :aok

You're going to need to ante up a lot more than pizza to get me to join.

One of these days, I would love to get Perd, Spikes, Devil, and Ditto in bombers, and we can have a grand ol' time!

Here's my offer to you, Brooke.


If you lead the Axis and bring your crew of toadies with you, I'll fly a B-26 in this setup and bring Perd and Spikes with me.

Since you believe that your design is fair and balanced, you should have no issue with this arrangement.
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Offline ROC

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2019, 12:43:27 AM »
Quote
Here's my offer to you, Brooke.


If you lead the Axis and bring your crew of toadies with you, I'll fly a B-26 in this setup and bring Perd and Spikes with me.

Since you believe that your design is fair and balanced, you should have no issue with this arrangement.
Locked in, this setup, no changes?  I'll even come back and fly with Devil and company.  I've been having a very hard time keeping quiet over this stuff lately.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2019, 12:57:22 AM »
I didn't hear anyone complain when spit 1s were going against 111s, 110s, 109s, and 190s.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2019, 03:43:12 AM »
You're going to need to ante up a lot more than pizza to get me to join.

Here's my offer to you, Brooke.

If you lead the Axis and bring your crew of toadies with you, I'll fly a B-26 in this setup and bring Perd and Spikes with me.

Since you believe that your design is fair and balanced, you should have no issue with this arrangement.

Well, a couple of things; and at the end, what I will do.

---- The Couples of Things ----

First, I assume you are talking about the guys who agreed to fly P-40's with me:  Popsman (who is my father), Killyjim (best man at my wedding), TheKenzr (my nephew), Tudza (my college buddy and co worker), and 1ijac (long-time AH pal, awesome AH pilot, and all around excellent human being).

Not only are these guys all fine human beings outside the game, they are fine assets to scenarios, because they are always willing to contribute and help out.  Many historical setups are not composed of only highly favored planes.  These guys are willing to fly those P-40's, Stukas, Il-2's, He 111's, B5N's, 110's vs. P-51's, etc. so that we have those historical yet unfavored planes filled and so that others can fly the highly preferred planes.  Then, they show up every frame and never quit, even if we are getting annihilated.  They never complain.  They don't badmouth anyone.  They maintain high, positive morale no matter what.  Those are high-quality guys.

Second, I already offered to be axis CO.  I wasn't taken up on it.  We long since moved on.  Now I'm done with my recruiting (after lots of PM's personally inviting my contacts to fly specifically with me in specific roles) and have built my command team.

I like the axis side just fine in this scenario and in general.  In the past 34 scenarios, I flew axis 56% of the time, a lot of the time as a GL.  I've been axis CO in Rangoon '42 and Big Week; and allied CO in Fjord Fury and Nuisance Raids.  I would have been happy to be axis CO in this one.

Here is how it works.  I give all other scenario CM's their choices first.  Then I fill in where needed.  Currently, we have four scenario CM's:  me, Swareiam, Ditto, and Perd.  Perd has a strong axis preference.  I asked him about this before.  He says he'd go allied if he must to help out but not by choice.  Ditto seems to prefer axis, but I'm not sure if it's an enormously strong preference.  Swareiam likes both sides but still, like most people, has preferences from time to time.  I like all of those folks to get their choices first, and I'll take what's left.

---- What I will do ----

However, I will do this for you, Devil.  Next time I'm needed to fill in as a CO, and if there is flexibility on which side that is, you choose which side I go.

I'll do that whether or not you fly in Anzio.

I wanted you to fly in Anzio for two reasons.  One is to help a good guy (Perd) who might also be an AH pal of yours.  That's independent of what you think of the setup -- that's helping someone out.  Second is that I think you'd end up having fun.  But you are very certain that you won't, and under those circumstances (as in Henry Ford's saying "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right"), you will be right.

So, we'll see how it goes, and I hope that you join us in the next scenario that is more to your liking.  :aok
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 06:14:46 AM by Brooke »

Offline swareiam

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2019, 08:01:21 AM »
Ahem...

I luv Devil just as much as the rest of you guys, he is an AWESOME dude. But why are we even entertaining the thoughts of making changes now to accommodate his patronage?  :headscratch:

The basics of "scenario" are still the same.

Kill or be Killed in glory and with honor.

There are some warriors here that just want to feel the quickening of the kill.

If you are on the lower end of the food chain, then stay away or maybe there is just a tinge of fear. I don't know...

All I know is that if your warrior spirit is calling out for battle, then sign up. Pick up your sword and shield or stick and throttle and GETSUM!

Somebodies going to bleed, somebody going to blow up, and someone is going to die a glorious "Virtual" death.

Could be you or you or you or me. But this happens every scenario regardless of design. I love it!  :t

Let's stop talkin about this and go blow some stuff up!  :furious



C'mon let's fight!

 :salute
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:17:52 AM by swareiam »
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Offline TWCAxew

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2019, 10:09:06 AM »


All I know is that if your warrior spirit is calling out for battle, then sign up. Pick up your sword and shield or stick and throttle and GETSUM!

C'mon let's fight!

 :salute




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Offline swareiam

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2019, 11:05:57 AM »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2019, 11:08:23 AM »
ROTFLMAO
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Devil comments
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2019, 11:33:39 AM »
Locked in, this setup, no changes?  I'll even come back and fly with Devil and company.  I've been having a very hard time keeping quiet over this stuff lately.

We need all the help we can get.

We have to convince Devil to fly somehow, can't leave an events guy like him out of them. If the Luftwaffe pilots who are committed to flying are to have any semblance of fun, we need more pilots. If we do not get them I am not sure if anyone on our side will actually stay for very long in the event.

Please sign up or tell us what you would like to see implemented that would convince you to sign up.
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