Author Topic: Lion Air Report  (Read 8004 times)

Offline Puma44

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #135 on: December 10, 2019, 10:41:23 AM »
Never had the urge for vet school.  But, did get the urge to fly Phantoms at age 6.  24 years later, I was in F-4 RTU realizing a dream come true.  Still remember the J79s coming to life behind me for the first time, like it happened this morning.



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #136 on: December 10, 2019, 11:41:11 AM »
ACE has been surprisingly absent from this thread.   Not that I ever read what he writes--I have him on ignore--but I guess the OP set his straw man afire.   :rofl :aok
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Offline ACE

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #137 on: December 10, 2019, 12:06:59 PM »
ACE has been surprisingly absent from this thread.   Not that I ever read what he writes--I have him on ignore--but I guess the OP set his straw man afire.   :rofl :aok

You ever been wrong about something so you just sit back and listen?  That’s me here.
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Offline Busher

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #138 on: December 10, 2019, 12:14:58 PM »
Never had the urge for vet school.  But, did get the urge to fly Phantoms at age 6.  24 years later, I was in F-4 RTU realizing a dream come true.  Still remember the J79s coming to life behind me for the first time, like it happened this morning.

I can certainly appreciate what you are saying; I think I would have enjoyed that kind of flying immensely.
I inferred from some of your posts that you did or are doing some airline flying after your military career. I hope I am not mistaken.
I am pretty confident that memories of waiting your turn at 06:30, for a de-ice spray during light freezing rain do not jump to the top of your best days in aviation list.
Being male, an accident of birth. Being a man, a matter of age. Being a gentleman, a matter of choice.

Offline Puma44

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #139 on: December 10, 2019, 12:40:57 PM »
I can certainly appreciate what you are saying; I think I would have enjoyed that kind of flying immensely.
I inferred from some of your posts that you did or are doing some airline flying after your military career. I hope I am not mistaken.
I am pretty confident that memories of waiting your turn at 06:30, for a de-ice spray during light freezing rain do not jump to the top of your best days in aviation list.

The military flying was beyond describable fun.  The before and after BS in peacetime tended to be an irritating survival effort since it had nothing to do with flying, and everything to do with politics.

Yes, I did 21 years in the airlines after that, mostly in 737s (-100, 200, 300, 500, 700, 800).  A short stint in the BE1900 before that.  And yeah, just like Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself, the proper use of the trim cutoff switches would have saved those two Max 8s.

Oh yes, the dreaded de-ice pad.  As a mostly pm flyer, mine were very late in the evening or the wee hours of the morning.  So very frustrating to have a long day of on time departures and arrivals jinxed by having to de-ice before takeoff on the last leg.   That was always good for at least 20 minutes late, IF everything was going smoothly getting to the pad, getting sprayed, and out to the runway.  The majority of the time, as you know, that didn’t happen very efficiently. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 12:45:02 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #140 on: December 10, 2019, 12:53:59 PM »
You ever been wrong about something so you just sit back and listen?  That’s me here.

That's a commendable course of action


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Offline Puma44

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #141 on: December 10, 2019, 01:24:20 PM »
That's a commendable course of action


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True, vs taking the bait.  :aok



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #142 on: December 10, 2019, 03:01:28 PM »
True, vs taking the bait.  :aok

Pot meet kettle.   :aok
”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #143 on: December 10, 2019, 03:03:58 PM »
That's a commendable course of action


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It's about time.   :cheers:
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
325th VFG - "The Checkertails"
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline ACE

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #144 on: December 10, 2019, 04:01:45 PM »
I recognize the pilots fault. I’ve never flown a plane. I shouldn’t have joined the conversation. But I do enjoy learning. And that I have.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #145 on: December 17, 2019, 06:19:31 AM »

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #146 on: December 17, 2019, 07:30:33 AM »
Boeing is suspends production of the Max.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=boing+max&view=detail&mid=F94B8A16915F037D1D88F94B8A16915F037D1D88&FORM=VIRE

No big surprise.   They aren't cheap to park all over the place and the regulators are dragging their feet for self-preservation.    It was all quite predictable.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
325th VFG - "The Checkertails"
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Toad

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #147 on: December 17, 2019, 08:03:58 AM »
Proof that the havoc incompetent pilots can wreak extends far, far beyond the actual crash site.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #148 on: December 17, 2019, 08:31:33 AM »
Proof that the havoc incompetent pilots can wreak extends far, far beyond the actual crash site.


You said it all.   

Like ripples in a pond after the stone is thrown.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
325th VFG - "The Checkertails"
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Toad

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Re: Lion Air Report
« Reply #149 on: December 17, 2019, 08:48:09 AM »
Because of the Max crashes, I have been giving all my recurrent clients the AOA malfunction/stick pusher event at unstick. For almost every crew, it's something no one has ever given them in the sim, something they have never experienced.

The pusher repeatedly pushes the nose down if AOA exceeds 1.0., which is what the AOA malfunction does. Takes 75lbs of force to overcome the pusher or holding down the A/P disconnect disables the pusher as well. (Oh, btw, although the aircraft is continuously reading both AOA vanes, either vane sensing >.99 AOA will trigger the push. Just one, in other words.)

So far not a single crew has failed to overcome this situation successfully and survive.

I guess it's fair to point out that all of these individuals have far more than 200 hours flying time.

Go figure.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!