Author Topic: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?  (Read 14145 times)

Offline Lusche

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2019, 12:31:46 PM »
I hear and read people saying where's the fight? The Special Event that packs most dog-fighting/hour of any event we have barely gets enough players to even run it.
 :headscratch:


I think they often mean a different type of 'fight' than the kind of duels in KOTH. It would be better they would use the term 'battle', because that's what they are often looking for.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2019, 12:38:51 PM »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2019, 01:25:11 PM »
Yes, it's exactly like that.

A seasonal variance superimposed on a overall decade long downward trend line.

Surely the trend line will eventually and magically reverse itself without us having to make any scary changes from the way we've always done things. 

But only if you believe in magic and Tinkerbell with ALL your might!  ;)

:salute
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Offline bozon

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2019, 01:26:10 PM »
AH3 will not get any new players.
The game smells of mothballs. The average player age is probably over 40, we had numerous players literally dying of old age.

There is no saving AH - the game has to die in order to rise from its own ashes. The new game must not be AH4, but a new name. It may have all the familiar features of AH, many mechanics under the hood, and a similar core game, but it must feel new and branded as a new game. No 17 year old wants to pay monthly to join a franchise that was launched in 1999 (older than himself!) and play with a bunch of grumpy old geezers.
Not cool.

I see an empty niche in the market for a large scale online combat sim. DCS servers are not that, nor are Sturmovik. Warthunder is a silly arcade with matched teams and instances. None have a one big persistent arena maintained and hosted by the developers, where the whole community plays together.

I may be wrong about this, but I think the AH replacement should go back to its roots - an air combat focused game. Leave the GVs to WWII online and Warthunder. The inclusion of a ground game only makes the game look more complicated, daunting and more scary to new players. Keep it simple and focused.
Player generated “Missions” must be encouraged - this is the most welcoming feature for a new player, and where he is seamlessly introduced to the social aspect of the game.
Years ago I suggested a way to introduce organized missions into the sandbox arena without forcing everyone to only fly missions. This was in the wake of the canceled “tour of duty”, and was meant to incorporate elements of that into the MA. I still think it is a good direction to explore, not necessarily in that exact implementation.

Here is that old thread (from 2009):
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256300.0.html

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2019, 01:29:59 PM »
 :( :confused: :eek: :uhoh :bolt:
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Offline Max

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2019, 01:31:04 PM »
AH3 will not get any new players.
The game smells of mothballs. The average player age is probably over 40, we had numerous players literally dying of old age.

There is no saving AH - the game has to die in order to rise from its own ashes. The new game must not be AH4, but a new name. It may have all the familiar features of AH, many mechanics under the hood, and a similar core game, but it must feel new and branded as a new game. No 17 year old wants to pay monthly to join a franchise that was launched in 1999 (older than himself!) and play with a bunch of grumpy old geezers.
Not cool.

I see an empty niche in the market for a large scale online combat sim. DCS servers are not that, nor are Sturmovik. Warthunder is a silly arcade with matched teams and instances. None have a one big persistent arena maintained and hosted by the developers, where the whole community plays together.

I may be wrong about this, but I think the AH replacement should go back to its roots - an air combat focused game. Leave the GVs to WWII online and Warthunder. The inclusion of a ground game only makes the game look more complicated, daunting and more scary to new players. Keep it simple and focused.
Player generated “Missions” must be encouraged - this is the most welcoming feature for a new player, and where he is seamlessly introduced to the social aspect of the game.
Years ago I suggested a way to introduce organized missions into the sandbox arena without forcing everyone to only fly missions. This was in the wake of the canceled “tour of duty”, and was meant to incorporate elements of that into the MA. I still think it is a good direction to explore, not necessarily in that exact implementation.

Here is that old thread (from 2009):
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256300.0.html

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Offline Zazen13

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2019, 01:53:59 PM »
I stopped playing when the game became more about ground vehicles than air combat on HUGE maps that made finding good fights a chore.  If I wanted to play with ground vehicles I'd play World of Tanks...
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2019, 02:06:48 PM »
AH3 will not get any new players.
The game smells of mothballs. The average player age is probably over 40, we had numerous players literally dying of old age.

You're going to Hell!  :rofl

There is no saving AH - the game has to die in order to rise from its own ashes. The new game must not be AH4, but a new name. It may have all the familiar features of AH, many mechanics under the hood, and a similar core game, but it must feel new and branded as a new game. No 17 year old wants to pay monthly to join a franchise that was launched in 1999 (older than himself!) and play with a bunch of grumpy old geezers.
Not cool.

I don't see any reason to shut down AH.  There is a legacy population of old timers who will not play anything else and apparently won't accept anything other than minor tweaks to what there is right now.  Leave it in place.  It's all just running on boxes in his closet and I bet he could run 50 Aces High on the hardware he has now and has network code so optimized that with the current numbers it is probably only using a small fraction of the bandwidth.

I do think there is merit in considering what comes next.  A new project with fresh design freedom, not shackled by an entrenched DON'T-CHANGE-ANYTHING mafia.  Good time to consider modern off-the-shelf game engines.  Offload the plumbing work to people who specialize in that, so Hitech can concentrate on product specific game-play.  It may not be worth it, but starting fresh with a new game would be a good time to explore it.


I may be wrong about this, but I think the AH replacement should go back to its roots - an air combat focused game. Leave the GVs to WWII online and Warthunder. The inclusion of a ground game only makes the game look more complicated, daunting and more scary to new players. Keep it simple and focused.

Maybe you're right, but I personally would disagree with that.  I think that is going exactly the wrong direction.  I think plane only would be just too narrow an offering for the current market.  I think the game needs to be broadened not constricted.  I'd add Battlefield level infantry.  :D

It's not 1988 anymore.  You can not time travel back to your Air Warrior heyday.  The current market isn't interested in your old stories Gramps.  :D



You could do a prototype test with AH without having to build an entire new game to test the theory.  For one year, disable all boats and vehicles in all arena and see how it works out.

 :bolt:

My dream?  Venture capital comes in and says,
 "Hey guys, we got $50 mil burning a hole in our pocket but you, WB, WWIIOL have to stop dividing a market so that none of you have enough resources to succeed.  We're merging you all. 
Bill, get the marketing machine going.  Get press make sales.  Sell the sizzle!
Dale, figure out how to encapsulate your flight models and interop to a Unity front end and Unity Connected Games infrastructure. 
Rats, get some real modelers and redo all your infantry and work with Dale on the vehicles.
Here are wads of cash to get things rolling. 
Ready, set, GO!"

:D
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 02:10:48 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2019, 02:10:42 PM »
WW2OL still exists?   :headscratch:
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2019, 02:13:52 PM »
WW2OL still exists?   :headscratch:

I've seen similar comments about AH in its Steam reviews.

[paraphrased]

"Oh man, me and my little brother Mikie used to play this game when we were little kids after school taking turns at the joystick.  I can't believe that game is still going.  I though it shut down a decade ago!"

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Offline Wiley

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2019, 02:16:30 PM »
A new project with fresh design freedom, not shackled by an entrenched DON'T-CHANGE-ANYTHING mafia.

What in your entire experience with HTC and AH leads you to the conclusion that the entrenched don't change anything mafia has any impact whatsoever on HT's decisions?  He sure didn't listen to them when he made the changes he made going to AH3.

I think Bozon's got it about summed up.  Maybe making a different game alongside AH3 would work too.  Hence, dating sim.  Low dev cost, low overhead, massive profit.

Either that or generating more content than the game's ever had over its entire lifespan and releasing it over the shortest timeframe they've ever done.

Wiley.
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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2019, 02:27:57 PM »
Maybe instead of making all of these extra arena's and a seperate game for noobs, HTC should just keep it simple and make one playground.
Keep the TA and DA, but get rid of all the clutter.

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Offline Lusche

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2019, 02:33:13 PM »
Routine post about GV usage (measured in time spent in modes) in the Main/LW/Melee arena over the years:



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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2019, 02:34:04 PM »
What in your entire experience with HTC and AH leads you to the conclusion that the entrenched don't change anything mafia has any impact whatsoever on HT's decisions?

Because he can do basic arithmetic?

It's not really about new players or old players.  It's about net players.

He has two basic variables in the equation to balance:

1. Get new players.
2. Keep old players.

If he fails at #2 before he can achieve #1, he is out of money. 

But to make the kind of changes needed to achieve #1, he risks failing at #2 because of a revolt by the DCA Mafia.  If he fails at #2 before he can replace them with enough of #1, he is out of money.

So, mothball the old game as-is for the old guys.  The attrition rate from natural causes is hopefully less than all out revolt.
Throw your energies into a new game to achieve #1 with full design freedom.

:salute 

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2019, 02:37:53 PM »
Maybe instead of making all of these extra arena's and a seperate game for noobs, HTC should just keep it simple and make one playground.
Keep the TA and DA, but get rid of all the clutter.

Coogan

This. 
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