Author Topic: IL2 Normandy  (Read 6226 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2020, 03:53:46 PM »
Oh, as a long time FSO CM, I am fully aware.

FSO in its prime was hosting 250+ pilots per side. 500 player FSOs were incredible, today we're at 110-120 pilots.


I can only imagine what a 500 player scenario would be like. 

Do you really get as high as 110 in a FSO  nowadays?  Regular Scenarios have been having a real problem filling the ranks.

I need to check into how open they are to non-squad pilots helping fill out without having to join a squad. 


The old chaps in the garden shed are tooling along.  It will look great in VR, if the FPS hold. ;)



Again, this could take the place of AH multiplayer for me, but I do enjoy losing myself in an offline campaign pilot career.

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Offline Nefarious

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2020, 04:04:46 PM »
I need to check into how open they are to non-squad pilots helping fill out without having to join a squad. 

you're more than welcome to fly with the 412th this month.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Shuffler

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2020, 04:12:46 PM »

I can only imagine what a 500 player scenario would be like. 

Do you really get as high as 110 in a FSO  nowadays?  Regular Scenarios have been having a real problem filling the ranks.

I need to check into how open they are to non-squad pilots helping fill out without having to join a squad. 


The old chaps in the garden shed are tooling along.  It will look great in VR, if the FPS hold. ;)



Again, this could take the place of AH multiplayer for me, but I do enjoy losing myself in an offline campaign pilot career.

Squads in FSO are separate from everything else. When I fly there I am with the 412th. They are a good bunch of folks.
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Offline mikeWe9a

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2020, 04:27:36 PM »
Agreed.  The game should be combat, not playing "Where's Waldo" as Mr. Magoo.


But the fact is that aerial combat IS a game of Where's Waldo, in that the large majority of fighters that were shot down by other fighters (bomber gunners, ground fire, etc, notwithstanding) were shot down by planes THAT THEY NEVER SAW.  Ambush, both in the era of visual engagements and even now in the era of Beyond Visual Range combat, is both the preferred and the most common method of dispatching your enemy.

Also, as someone who has flown several thousand hours, sighting other aircraft in flight is NOT infallible, effortless, or even easy.  Canopies get dirty, they get scratched (if they weren't before you got in, they will be by the time you've taken off), and aircraft are really rather small objects, and are very difficult to see at any significant range, especially those that are against a cluttered background (e.g. the ground).  I once spent 3 hours orbiting an objective in Afghanistan, with a Predator drone 1000 feet below me in an overlapping orbit.  Even having a rough idea of where to look for it (thanks to TCAS), and the fact that it was painted WHITE over a tan and green ground, it was over an hour before either I or the other pilot sighted it, despite coming within less than a mile of it repeatedly.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2020, 04:44:03 PM »
But the fact is that aerial combat IS a game of Where's Waldo, in that the large majority of fighters that were shot down by other fighters (bomber gunners, ground fire, etc, notwithstanding) were shot down by planes THAT THEY NEVER SAW. 

Yeah, I get all that.  When display technology matches real-word human vision,  I'll gladly accept those occurrences. Hell, I get bounced WITH icons. ;)

But surely you would agree that today's consumer monitor tech doesn't come close to the resolution, contrast, and dynamic range of a young pilots Mk I eyeball at 1,2,5 mile ranges.
Put VR gear on and it's 10x worse that that!

I got no problem if there is a IL2 server setup like that and people prefer it.  They just won't get me in there until my VR has 4k per eye with HDR.  But then I'll be on the porn sites all day and won't have time to fly.  ;)

:salute


[edit]

I saw someone suggest somewhere having no icons <400 yd or so, then icons out to what should be visual range.  That would be a cool compromise. 




 

« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 05:23:04 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2020, 05:21:35 PM »
you're more than welcome to fly with the 412th this month.

Thanks for the kind offer.

Still trying to understand how it works.  So if I understand correctly the 412th is a ad hoc squad for the purposes of the FSO, but other squads are their regular squads like in the Melee?

I thought I saw somewhere in the docs that I could pre-arrange to fly with a squad for a series, but eventually I would be expected to join a squad to continue.  I like flying with squads.  I just don't want to join one permanently.  And I may want to arrange to fly with one group one month, and another group another month.  But I got the idea that would be wearing out my welcome.  I though I saw a comment on one of the pages that after being a guest a couple of times you would expected join a squad, but of course now I can't find that.  Maybe I imagined it.

I like Scenarios because I can be part of a "squad" for the duration of the event, but we're not still "married" after it's over.  Yeah, I have commitment issues. ;)

[Edit] Ahh here is the wording I was referring to:

Quote
To participate in Squad Operations you must be in a squad that has
registered and active in the event. You may fly as a guest in a squad
but eventually you would be expected to join that squad in FSO or bring
in your own squad.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,386048.0.html





« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 05:34:23 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2020, 05:47:13 PM »
Thanks for the kind offer.

No problem, the 412th is always recruiting.

Still trying to understand how it works.  So if I understand correctly the 412th is a ad hoc squad for the purposes of the FSO, but other squads are their regular squads like in the Melee?

The 412th was at one time a Melee squad, but over time became strictly a FSO squad. It is made up of previous FSO squads that disbanded and merged into the 412th.

I thought I saw somewhere in the docs that I could pre-arrange to fly with a squad for a series, but eventually I would be expected to join a squad to continue.  I like flying with squads.  I just don't want to join one permanently.  And I may want to arrange to fly with one group one month, and another group another month.  But I got the idea that would be wearing out my welcome.  I though I saw a comment on one of the pages that after being a guest a couple of times you would expected join a squad, but of course now I can't find that.  Maybe I imagined it.

I like Scenarios because I can be part of a "squad" for the duration of the event, but we're not still "married" after it's over.  Yeah, I have commitment issues. ;)

We would love to have people participate every frame, but there are people that "shop around" or only fly when it's their aircraft of choice. I don't worry about it. If someone likes FSO they'll come back, and maybe even start their own squad. I would expect a pilot who doesn't want to commit to at least fly 1 month with a squad or 3 frames, before switching up.

412th is flying Allied this month: https://ahevents.net/index.php/fso-current-next-event
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 05:50:30 PM by Nefarious »
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline turt21

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2020, 06:46:19 PM »
OK Am I the only one? What is TFS 5.0?

Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2020, 06:54:38 PM »
OK Am I the only one? What is TFS 5.0?


Team Fusion Simulations. A group of programming simmers that took over development of IL2: Cliffs of Dover and fixed/added stuff and re-released as  IL2: Cliffs of Dover Blitz Edition with all the patches rolled into it. 

They are working on a IL2: Cliffs of Dover Tobruk (patch 5.0) mod (my geography is a little shady but not sure how Dover and Tobruk are related  ;)) that used the CloD engine.  After that, they are supposed to go back and add VR to Blitz so I can save England from those nasty Fritz. :D
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2020, 07:51:47 PM »
They are working on a IL2: Cliffs of Dover Tobruk (patch 5.0) mod (my geography is a little shady but not sure how Dover and Tobruk are related  ;)) that used the CloD engine.  After that, they are supposed to go back and add VR to Blitz so I can save England from those nasty Fritz. :D

Toburk is a project the Team Fusion guys have been working on for a few years, well before they became the proper development team for Cliffs of Dover.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2020, 07:59:04 PM »
Toburk is a project the Team Fusion guys have been working on for a few years, well before they became the proper development team for Cliffs of Dover.

Interesting.  Does it use the CloD engine?  And the CloD engine is a different engine than BoX? 

[edit]  Never mind.  I saw this:
Quote
Thrall123RealID
5 months ago
IL-2: 1946, IL-2: Cliffs of Dover, and IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad Great Battles series use 3 different game engines. Team Fusion Simulations makes patches for Cliffs of Dover game engine.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 08:23:44 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2020, 09:55:47 PM »
in that the large majority of fighters that were shot down by other fighters (bomber gunners, ground fire, etc, notwithstanding) were shot down by planes THAT THEY NEVER SAW. 

Despite icons, that has happened to me many times in Scenarios.  All it takes is looking at your map or a printout at the wrong time, or concentrating for a moment on some other guy, or some clouds in unfortunate locations.

Examples of planes I didn't notice until I was taking hits:








Offline Drano

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2020, 11:33:01 AM »
Been messing with IL-2. The no icons thing is a challenge. First kill I had online was a friendly. Blew him to hell I did! Didn't notice it was a pony til the parts got closer. Oops! I swear he was shooting at the guy right next to me so I kinda saved a friendly too right? Flew axis and the first actual kill was of a 38. Go figure. But no mistaking that! Poetic justice.

Looks great in VR. Hate not being able to look back much beyond the 3-9 line easily in VR, which is my biggest gripe. The engine crap isn't that much to deal with once you've educated yourself what your settings should be or more importantly, should not be. Either way it's Voice Attack to the rescue there. Otherwise it's a lot of the same stuff only two sides and prettier.


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Offline save

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2020, 01:05:19 AM »
It's like everything else you adjust, you get better at it.  Maybe my video didn't show him as much as I could see him on my screen in game but everything close in can be tracked as you describe.  It's when closure rates are high from above or below that things get really difficult and I would imagine it was near impossible for say a P51D pilot to see and react to a ME 262 hedge hopping or coming head on.  With Late war rides speeds are way up flying in slow rides would be much easier.   

Spotting requires using the zoom alot and you could argue the pilot didn't use a set of binoculars whilst looking about but it makes up for the lack of icons in a gameplay sense. 

I do like the aircraft recognition aspect but with only 6 planes it is not a big deal when they add more shapes and sizes it will get worse. 
In my 200 hours or so of multiplayer action without icons in DCS I've only blasted 1 plane incorrectly and been fired upon maybe 5 times, most have stopped once realizing their mistake and apologized.   Of course this is also an SA fail on my part as I too did not spot them in time to take evasives.  You also have to factor in not everyone is an experten and cut them some slack.  After all Bader got shot down by one of his own.    :D


I've shot a few  Fiat's thinking they were Hurricanes in CLOD in a 109E  :D
Their wings looks exactly the same.

The StormOfWar scenarios were intense (not active anymore), and if your plane was damaged, it had to be repaired, and if you died, your score was reset.
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: IL2 Normandy
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2020, 09:31:36 AM »

I've shot a few  Fiat's thinking they were Hurricanes in CLOD in a 109E  :D
Their wings looks exactly the same.

The StormOfWar scenarios were intense (not active anymore), and if your plane was damaged, it had to be repaired, and if you died, your score was reset.

storm of war have put up both CLOD and DCS servers recently but you'd have to do some more digging as to when they all decide to login and play  :aok
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