Author Topic: Tracking in motion simulator  (Read 187 times)

Offline jimson

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Tracking in motion simulator
« on: April 30, 2020, 05:17:36 PM »
Similar to Ravens question do any of the vr headsets have a disable gyro tracking feature?
I would like to build a motion cockpit and would like to use trackir to reference a fixed point in the cockpit so the motion of the platform doesn't mess up the head tracking.

Offline Drano

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2020, 05:25:21 PM »
Man if I could do that with my RiftS I'd do it in a second! The restricted FOV when seated like in flight sims or racing games is a big drawback IMO. Thankfully, AH let's you use the hats to extend the views. But yeah you'd need something like that in order for it to track properly as I'd think the moving platform will mess it up. RiftS has inside out optical tracking using 5 cameras.

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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 06:12:56 PM »
Man if I could do that with my RiftS I'd do it in a second! The restricted FOV when seated like in flight sims or racing games is a big drawback IMO. Thankfully, AH let's you use the hats to extend the views. But yeah you'd need something like that in order for it to track properly as I'd think the moving platform will mess it up. RiftS has inside out optical tracking using 5 cameras.

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Camera based tracking is usually a little laggy. So it is usually augmented with a gyroscope, accelerometer, and magnetometer (Rift, Rift S, and Quest all do iirc). Those sensors give a more instantaneous feedback for tracking.

So why not only use those sensors? Well they are all subject to what we call drift.  If you exclusively use a  gyroscope, accelerometer, and magnetometer after a while you headset will drift off center. The magnetometer in particular is a PITA for drift (especially in NZ). A lot of older headsets only used such sensors (I had a VFX-1, Emagin Z800, and Vuzix VR1200 with this setup).

That's one of the great things Palmer Luckey brought together in the Oculus platform, combined optical and physical sensor fusion for 6DoF tracking.

Offline Drano

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2020, 06:21:02 PM »
Yeah but I'd still like to somehow join the great visuals of VR with the tracking functionality of TIR. For flight sims, where you can't easily turn around sitting in a chair, TIR is the best as you can scale it as you like. I get the VR 1:1 thing but that works best in games where you're standing and can just turn your whole body.

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Offline Drano

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2020, 06:23:51 PM »
Basically if I could tape over the cameras or disable them on my RiftS and stick my TIR clip to the headset I'd be all over it for flight sims. That'd be best. Can't believe nobody has come up with a way.

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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2020, 07:08:15 PM »
Yeah but I'd still like to somehow join the great visuals of VR with the tracking functionality of TIR. For flight sims, where you can't easily turn around sitting in a chair, TIR is the best as you can scale it as you like. I get the VR 1:1 thing but that works best in games where you're standing and can just turn your whole body.

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Welp actually I was asking HT for scalable options in VR.

Pre-AH3 I used a app called FreeTrack to get VR interfaced to AH2. Basically a trackIR emulator. It would take inputs from anything you like - trackers...joysticks... webcams with face tracking... and VR devices. You could do scaling just like on trackIR.

I think my tracking ration was like 120 degrees to left or right give you a 6 view. And 60 degrees up gave you 90 up.

My reasoning say you can turn your head 120 degrees to the right, you can turn your eyeball another 30 degrees, giving you a total of 150 degrees which gave you a partial view of your 6. eg if I turn to the right, I can see the back of my chair in my vision.

If you could tell AH3 to do the VR view but ignore the Oculus tracker and use the Freeview tracker you could do it quite easily.

Offline Drano

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2020, 07:12:20 PM »
That would rule.

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Offline Drano

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 07:14:50 PM »
I think the problem at least with the Rift S is that if it can't see the cameras it gives you a tracking error and stops. There's no way to disable them in the Oculus software. If you disable them in windows you get the error. But if ya could...

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Offline FLS

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2020, 07:20:19 PM »
Similar to Ravens question do any of the vr headsets have a disable gyro tracking feature?
I would like to build a motion cockpit and would like to use trackir to reference a fixed point in the cockpit so the motion of the platform doesn't mess up the head tracking.

How do you plan on matching game motion? If you're just going to follow the joystick movement it's not worth doing because the stick and aircraft usually don't move together. If you use a software solution you need data exported from the game.

Offline jimson

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2020, 07:26:22 PM »
Camera based tracking is usually a little laggy. So it is usually augmented with a gyroscope, accelerometer, and magnetometer (Rift, Rift S, and Quest all do iirc). Those sensors give a more instantaneous feedback for tracking.

So why not only use those sensors? Well they are all subject to what we call drift.  If you exclusively use a  gyroscope, accelerometer, and magnetometer after a while you headset will drift off center. The magnetometer in particular is a PITA for drift (especially in NZ). A lot of older headsets only used such sensors (I had a VFX-1, Emagin Z800, and Vuzix VR1200 with this setup).

That's one of the great things Palmer Luckey brought together in the Oculus platform, combined optical and physical sensor fusion for 6DoF tracking.
If you have a motion platform simulator, won't the headset see the pitch or roll of the platform as head movement?

Offline jimson

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2020, 07:31:11 PM »
How do you plan on matching game motion? If you're just going to follow the joystick movement it's not worth doing because the stick and aircraft usually don't move together. If you use a software solution you need data exported from the game.
It's not an AH specific question, although Hi-tech has many times said that they can provide that data exportation.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2020, 04:51:56 PM »
If you have a motion platform simulator, won't the headset see the pitch or roll of the platform as head movement?

Yes. Essentially what you want is an option in AH3 that if you have multiple trackers to choose which tracker input you wish to use.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2020, 12:55:22 AM »
Yes. Essentially what you want is an option in AH3 that if you have multiple trackers to choose which tracker input you wish to use.
YES :aok Might be away(someday) to KEEP the Oculus as MONITOR only, then "Tracker of Choice"....that would be game changer :rock Mostly for other games I believe, as HT has VR experienced NAILED ie. being that "Hat Views" are still compatible with VR  :salute
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Offline jimson

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2020, 08:42:44 AM »
Yes. Essentially what you want is an option in AH3 that if you have multiple trackers to choose which tracker input you wish to use.
Or simply, a way to disable tracking in the headset.

Offline FLS

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Re: Tracking in motion simulator
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2020, 09:17:49 AM »
My motion platform corrects the headset movement with the software program so the game doesn't see the chair movement, you just feel it.  You just need to input the height of your headset above the seat for the calculations.