Author Topic: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed  (Read 966 times)

Offline Flayed1

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2020, 11:57:10 AM »
Yup, either two countries gang up on one ( as the OP drunkenly posted  :devil ), or two countries go head to head and totally ignore the third country.

What is needed is something to force the countries to fight more than one country.  Set it up so that if Bish capture two Knight fields they MUST capture a Rook field before they can capture any more Knight fields and vis versa for each country. This way the fronts stay active along both fronts. Cuts back on the ganging and help bring the fight to to lone country that is left to milk run unopposed bases.

  Ya know Fugi I absolutely love that idea.    I've been home sick for the last two weeks and have been logging a fair share of time in the MA and every morning the Bish have around 20 to 30 players and Rooks and Knights are usually around 10 or 12. Then in the evening it's the other way though with more #'s total but bish have usually been out numbered in the evening with a few folks on 200 screaming about how they were going to make the Bish hurt lol.   
  The only problem I see with said idea is with the #'s so lop sided like I've been seeing in the morning the high # side will just roll a couple bases one way and roll a couple the other...  Hmmmm     ENY obviously isn't enough of a deterrent for this kind of behavior. I always kind of shake my head and chuckle when I log on and hear fellow Bish Yowling on local about how Hitech should just get rid of ENY when we have triple the #'s of either of the other sides. Fortunately I've always preferred the older stuff so it really doesn't hit me much.

  So now that I've been staring at the screen thinking I had a thought...   
  Hitech would it be possible to maybe link building hardness to the ENY values..  Just thinking that maybe making the low #'s side's buildings harder so it would take more effort on the high #'s sides part to flatten things and roll along...  Say the low #'s side see's the end coming and has dug in and fortified their buildings or what have you :)   Might take a bit of tweaking to get the ratio right but maybe a possible solution.?

 In summery
  1. We have the ENY plane set limit to try to help lower the uberness of the hoard and give defenders a chance at defending.
  2. We could have Fugies idea to help stop the one way roll and keep all fronts of the war more active.
  3. Possible linking of building hardness to ENY to require the high #'s side to have to expend more ord or simple #'s of strafing aircraft and GV's (work harder) in order to flatten base structures, towns and factories.. 

 With the seesaw base capture plan and the hardness modifier nothing is really taken away from the players other than super easy base captures and porking ect. it just takes more effort to roll over the guys that are massively out numbered. 

 Anyway just a thought so don't go yelling and screaming but polite discussion is always appreciated. Thanks <S> 
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2020, 01:23:18 PM »
  Ya know Fugi I absolutely love that idea.    I've been home sick for the last two weeks and have been logging a fair share of time in the MA and every morning the Bish have around 20 to 30 players and Rooks and Knights are usually around 10 or 12. Then in the evening it's the other way though with more #'s total but bish have usually been out numbered in the evening with a few folks on 200 screaming about how they were going to make the Bish hurt lol.   
  The only problem I see with said idea is with the #'s so lop sided like I've been seeing in the morning the high # side will just roll a couple bases one way and roll a couple the other...  Hmmmm     ENY obviously isn't enough of a deterrent for this kind of behavior. I always kind of shake my head and chuckle when I log on and hear fellow Bish Yowling on local about how Hitech should just get rid of ENY when we have triple the #'s of either of the other sides. Fortunately I've always preferred the older stuff so it really doesn't hit me much.

  So now that I've been staring at the screen thinking I had a thought...   
  Hitech would it be possible to maybe link building hardness to the ENY values..  Just thinking that maybe making the low #'s side's buildings harder so it would take more effort on the high #'s sides part to flatten things and roll along...  Say the low #'s side see's the end coming and has dug in and fortified their buildings or what have you :)   Might take a bit of tweaking to get the ratio right but maybe a possible solution.?

 In summery
  1. We have the ENY plane set limit to try to help lower the uberness of the hoard and give defenders a chance at defending.
  2. We could have Fugies idea to help stop the one way roll and keep all fronts of the war more active.
  3. Possible linking of building hardness to ENY to require the high #'s side to have to expend more ord or simple #'s of strafing aircraft and GV's (work harder) in order to flatten base structures, towns and factories.. 

 With the seesaw base capture plan and the hardness modifier nothing is really taken away from the players other than super easy base captures and porking ect. it just takes more effort to roll over the guys that are massively out numbered. 

 Anyway just a thought so don't go yelling and screaming but polite discussion is always appreciated. Thanks <S>

 :aok I like it! A three pronged attack to combat uneven numbers, ganging and ignoring a whole team. 

Offline popeye

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2020, 03:12:10 PM »
Another possibility is to modify downtimes according to the number of players on a side:

Bish 25, Knit 15, Rook 10

Bish kills Knit auto ack:  Normal downtime 30 minutes.   Modified downtime:  30 * ( 15/25 ) = 18 minutes.

Bish kills Rook auto ack:  Modified downtime:  30 * ( 10 / 25 ) = 12 minutes.

Knit kills Rook auto ack:  Modified downtime:  30 * ( 10 / 15 ) = 20 minutes.

Knit kills Bish auto ack:  Downtime = standard time = 30 minutes.  (No increase beyond the standard time.)

This would give low number sides an incentive to attack the high number side, and would mitigate the high number's advantage.  It is also transparent since downtimes can be easily checked.  It could augment ENY or replace ENY.

Side numbers could be base on rolling averages to prevent gaming the system.
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Offline 1ijac

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2020, 03:25:24 AM »
Two countries pounding the 3rd country is a two country war and yet that is what the OP is complaining about and asking for.

    :headscratch:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 03:32:20 AM by 1ijac »
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2020, 08:16:05 AM »
Two countries pounding the 3rd country is a two country war and yet that is what the OP is complaining about and asking for.


Valid point.

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Offline Lazerr

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2020, 09:26:58 AM »
Two countries pounding the 3rd country is a two country war and yet that is what the OP is complaining about and asking for.

    :headscratch:

Its also 60 players vs 30 (example).

There is no balance to it.  The problem with three countries is how is disperses the smaller current population of this game across what normally is a map too large, or poorly laid out.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2020, 09:56:23 AM »
A 3 way war works best. Proven fact of gaming in this environment.

The issue AcesHigh currently has is the base defence via M3 zerg-suppling towns and players sitting in man-able ack.

Offline 100Coogn

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2020, 10:00:07 AM »
Do away with squads and have the game spawn the player into the lowest numbered country.
You want fair, there it is.

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Online atlau

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2020, 12:53:03 PM »
Do away with squads and have the game spawn the player into the lowest numbered country.
You want fair, there it is.

Coogan

Obviously getting rid of squad and country loyalty would be a no go as it really hurts the team aspect of the game which is key for drawing in and keeping new guys. If it's just a giant free for all they would quit even faster.

Lazer hit the nail on the head that map design/size is key to keeping the fight from getting too lopsided.

Maybe any future maps should make taking fields progressively more difficult as you approach the strats or the further you get into their territory. Could put smaller fields at the frontline and progressively have larger/higher fields. Could make vehicle spawns progressively further as well as you get closer to strats. And getting that final 20% of the fields should require a goon. Also make it easier to retake fields from the defending country the closer they are to their homeland.

Just an opinion from someone who has never made a map... (so that bustr doesnt give me crap about it)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2020, 12:56:55 PM »
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Offline Spikes

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2020, 01:00:43 PM »
Just an opinion from someone who has never made a map... (so that bustr doesnt give me crap about it)
Don't worry, he still will in 10,000 words. :)
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2020, 01:04:44 PM »
Two countries pounding the 3rd country is a two country war[...]


So isn't that just admitting that 3-sides offers no play-balance advantage over two sides?

:headscratch:


[Edit:  But it doesn't matter in the end.  I can understand the assumption is too baked into the current code to risk modifying. ]
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 01:08:09 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2020, 01:15:07 PM »

So isn't that just admitting that 3-sides offers no play-balance advantage over two sides?

:headscratch:


[Edit:  But it doesn't matter in the end.  I can understand the assumption is too baked into the current code to risk modifying. ]

I'd say it's more pointing out that people will gang given the opportunity, and given the existence of chesspiece underoos 2 sides won't change that aspect much.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2020, 01:29:16 PM »
I'd say it's more pointing out that people will gang given the opportunity, and given the existence of chesspiece underoos 2 sides won't change that aspect much.

Wiley.

But that isn't what they are saying. 

They are saying two sides would create horrible ganging problems and then use an example of the same thing happening in 3-sides to support their point.   :headscratch:

And that isn't even the advantage Hitech claims, but people keep trotting out this claim that doesn't make much sense.

But again, it doesn't matter at this point. 




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Online atlau

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Re: GET RID of 3 Country war - It failed
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2020, 01:33:29 PM »
But that isn't what they are saying. 

They are saying two sides would create horrible ganging problems and then use an example of the same thing happening in 3-sides to support their point.   :headscratch:

And that isn't even the advantage Hitech claims, but people keep trotting out this claim that doesn't make much sense.

But again, it doesn't matter at this point.

I think it's the opposite. People blame 3 sided wars for ganging... but the hanging would be just as bad in a 2 sided war. Except in a 3 sided war the 2 ganging countries eventually have an incentive to fight when they need each others fields to win.