Author Topic: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"  (Read 1644 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2020, 12:24:40 AM »
Wooing with barbs of 'incompetence' and 'ignorance?' My apologies. Carry on.





« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 01:40:01 AM by Arlo »

Offline AKKuya

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2020, 08:34:43 AM »
Devil, I understand your concerns.  If we can step aside from the easy winning point for a second. 

Did the Axis CIC provide a plan for scouts to locate the bombers?  Did the plan have the usual patrol areas for defending squads?  Did the plan allow for defending squads to intercept located bombers?

If this is correct, then Axis had potential for stopping Allied from achieving victory.

In the spirit of design, any side could make a difference.  Or, fumble the ball.  If the players had a good time on both sides, then there was that level of success.

As a CM, I do see the designer's plan before the event takes place.  Maybe Frame 1 might be considered a cakewalk.  Frame 2 might be a toss up either way.  Frame 3 might be an Axis slaughter of the Allied side.  That's based on what's written down on paper with my interpretation.

As we all know in the game, those of us who have had CIC/CO duty.  We write the perfect plan on paper, send them out to the subordinate squads and once the planes are in the air.  The plan usually is tossed out the window due to the fluidity of combat.  Individual squads and individual players choices reflect the outcome of the event beyond the designer's and CIC/s control and expectations.

Please have faith in the designer's intent and look forward to Frame 2.  I expect a stronger defense from Axis and a harder push for Allied.

 :salute
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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2020, 09:13:43 AM »


Did the Axis CIC provide a plan for scouts to locate the bombers?  Did the plan have the usual patrol areas for defending squads?  Did the plan allow for defending squads to intercept located bombers?

If this is correct, then Axis had potential for stopping Allied from achieving victory.

 :salute


Scouts would have needed to take off at 10:45pm to be effective.


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That's a RAID!!!

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Axis CO Battle of Leyte Scenario

Offline Becinhu

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2020, 12:37:11 PM »
I haven't seen the frame score yet but...when the 412ths heavy 47s arrived over target there were zero friendlies and at least two full squads of 109s and 190s waiting for us. Most of us got some ords off but we were decimated very quickly so I'm personally not seeing the axis slaughter...
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Offline Arlo

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2020, 12:48:03 PM »
If it's all about winning frames then just award every frame to Axis before it even starts. Problem solved.  :aok


Offline Bannor

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2020, 01:51:38 PM »
Did any Allied players get a kill in the manned guns?
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Offline edge12674

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2020, 02:39:27 PM »
Did the Axis CIC provide a plan for scouts to locate the bombers?  Did the plan have the usual patrol areas for defending squads?  Did the plan allow for defending squads to intercept located bombers?

If this is correct, then Axis had potential for stopping Allied from achieving victory.

As one of the squads assigned to scout duty in the 109G6 I can say "Yes" there was a plan in place. 

However, the plan was impossible due to the frame set-up putting the scouts so far from the defending base.  We tried to get to our scout sectors (west to southwest of the field) as fast as we could, forgoing alt for speed.  We were still about a keypad east of the field when town started flashing.  By the time we reached the field we could see field and town ack firing.  There was no time to get to the scouting sectors.

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Offline Devil 505

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2020, 03:02:30 PM »
Devil, I understand your concerns.  If we can step aside from the easy winning point for a second. 

Did the Axis CIC provide a plan for scouts to locate the bombers?  Did the plan have the usual patrol areas for defending squads?  Did the plan allow for defending squads to intercept located bombers?

If this is correct, then Axis had potential for stopping Allied from achieving victory.

In the spirit of design, any side could make a difference.  Or, fumble the ball.  If the players had a good time on both sides, then there was that level of success.

As a CM, I do see the designer's plan before the event takes place.  Maybe Frame 1 might be considered a cakewalk.  Frame 2 might be a toss up either way.  Frame 3 might be an Axis slaughter of the Allied side.  That's based on what's written down on paper with my interpretation.

As we all know in the game, those of us who have had CIC/CO duty.  We write the perfect plan on paper, send them out to the subordinate squads and once the planes are in the air.  The plan usually is tossed out the window due to the fluidity of combat.  Individual squads and individual players choices reflect the outcome of the event beyond the designer's and CIC/s control and expectations.

Please have faith in the designer's intent and look forward to Frame 2.  I expect a stronger defense from Axis and a harder push for Allied.

 :salute

Yes, both LCA and the Bad Guys pushed to A135 as fast as they could get there. The 190's of the Bad Guys would be the soonest to arrive. I'm not sure how close they were before the base was attacked. For a fact, the base started flashing before there was a single report of an enemy.
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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2020, 04:45:09 PM »
Yes, both LCA and the Bad Guys pushed to A135 as fast as they could get there. The 190's of the Bad Guys would be the soonest to arrive. I'm not sure how close they were before the base was attacked. For a fact, the base started flashing before there was a single report of an enemy.

When the Bad Guys arrived there was A-20's hitting the town and P-47's hitting the field.
I can't see, you can't see.As long as the f***in horse can see
That's a RAID!!!

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Axis CO Battle of Leyte Scenario

Offline Devil 505

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2020, 04:49:13 PM »
When the Bad Guys arrived there was A-20's hitting the town and P-47's hitting the field.

And you guys were first on the scene, right?
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Offline Rocco

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2020, 05:14:58 PM »
I'm not one to usually jump in on these but I just wanted to add a couple things.

According to the logs, the A20's were first allies to target and were all wiped out within 2 minutes of dropping. So they weren't much ahead of the defense. A race to target isn't new. I've been on the defending side having to race to get into position, only to see the ack already firing as we arrive. It sucks for sure, but we continued on and made them pay, which is what the axis did to this first wave. Another note, the frame objectives weren't achieved until a second sortie from the allies, around T+70. I can only speak to what I saw in B26's but the first run wasn't exactly a cake walk for us, we all came back shot up and missing wingmen. I've had worse times in a bomber but I've definitely also had easier.

As far as I know a design like this hasn't been attempted before, a purely objective based victory. I only ask we give it a chance from beginning to end.
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Offline AKKuya

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2020, 05:39:12 PM »
Just from the responses, it seems like the normal fluidity of combat. One squad went this way and another squad went that way.  The roll of the dice in decision making where each side made the best guess.

Aircraft from opposing sides did clash. Did everything go as planned? 

After making my pass over A135 Town, I wanted to egress with enemy fighters chasing me. It didn't happen.  Do you know I would love to be able to PM the enemy players to my location?  Making it back safely with bombers isn't fun for me personally. I want a running fight. That's me.  As a CM, I would never do that.  That's a Main Arena luxury.

We play FSO with the emphasis of guessing where the enemy is.  There is way more times of attackers being intercepted by defenders. On rare occasions, it doesn't happen.

Back to the OP, on paper it seemed like a new approach for setup. With new ideas, small snags can happen. FSO admins challenge themselves with new ideas. CM team discuss these way before the actual event.

Player input is critical after the Frame with new ideas.   Even if you don't think player input is being listened to.  It is.

Let's see how Frame 2 goes. Axis will have a better experience.   :salute
Chuck Norris can pick oranges from an apple tree and make the best lemonade in the world. Every morning when you wake up, swallow a live toad. Nothing worse can happen to you for the rest of the day. They say money can't buy happiness. I would like the opportunity to find out. Why be serious?

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2020, 07:15:17 PM »
And you guys were first on the scene, right?

Yep
I can't see, you can't see.As long as the f***in horse can see
That's a RAID!!!

CO--The Bad Guys
Axis CO Battle of Leyte Scenario

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2020, 07:17:17 PM »
Another note, the frame objectives weren't achieved until a second sortie from the allies, around T+70.

Before the B-26's arrived the town was 5 buildings away from being white flagged and all targets on the base were taken out.
I can't see, you can't see.As long as the f***in horse can see
That's a RAID!!!

CO--The Bad Guys
Axis CO Battle of Leyte Scenario

Offline Rocco

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2020, 07:49:52 PM »
Last ammo bunker was destroyed by Dantoo at 23:15. Several barracks were destroyed on the second run as well but I don't know if 3 were already down from the first attack.
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