Author Topic: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"  (Read 1643 times)

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2020, 08:08:53 PM »
I re-watched my stream from that night and it looked a little bit different.
I can't see, you can't see.As long as the f***in horse can see
That's a RAID!!!

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Offline Devil 505

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2020, 08:39:30 PM »
Last ammo bunker was destroyed by Dantoo at 23:15. Several barracks were destroyed on the second run as well but I don't know if 3 were already down from the first attack.

Every target was destroyed except the bunker that Dantoo killed and the town white-flagged before T+30
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2020, 09:10:59 PM »
I haven't seen the frame score yet but...when the 412ths heavy 47s arrived over target there were zero friendlies and at least two full squads of 109s and 190s waiting for us. Most of us got some ords off but we were decimated very quickly so I'm personally not seeing the axis slaughter...

Agreed

Was surprised to find out that the Allieds won
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2020, 09:13:42 PM »
Yes, both LCA and the Bad Guys pushed to A135 as fast as they could get there. The 190's of the Bad Guys would be the soonest to arrive. I'm not sure how close they were before the base was attacked. For a fact, the base started flashing before there was a single report of an enemy.

Just because it is flashing doesn't mean any enemy are insight from the base being attacked

"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Devil 505

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2020, 09:35:17 PM »
Just because it is flashing doesn't mean any enemy are insight from the base being attacked

My point is that the attackers were in position to attack the target before the defenders could be in position to defend it.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2020, 10:18:30 PM »


Well agreed


Just different perspective

Is this ok?


TC
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:09:10 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Devil 505

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2020, 10:52:15 PM »
Well agreed but that 1st wave basically got slaughtered not sure if any even survived

Do you not see the fundamental problem with this attitude given how the scoring system works?

The only way the Axis can defend the objective is to be in position to shoot bomb-laden Allied planes before they can drop their bombs. This was an impossibility in frame 1. The first wave dropped their bombs before they could be intercepted. How many survived in the end is not relevant since their job is over and successful. The kills of planes without bombs still on board is just a waste of ammo.


And all this discussion of the attack timing in Frame 1 only distracts from the greater problems with this setup, which are relevant regardless of when the attackers arrive. There are way too few target objects for the given number of assets who can carry bombs. The A135 distance problem only exacerbated the issue, but it was not the cause of it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 10:56:16 PM by Devil 505 »
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Offline AKKuya

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2020, 11:07:37 PM »
Do you not see the fundamental problem with this attitude given how the scoring system works?

The only way the Axis can defend the objective is to be in position to shoot bomb-laden Allied planes before they can drop their bombs. This was an impossibility in frame 1. The first wave dropped their bombs before they could be intercepted. How many survived in the end is not relevant since their job is over and successful. The kills of planes without bombs still on board is just a waste of ammo.


And all this discussion of the attack timing in Frame 1 only distracts from the greater problems with this setup, which are relevant regardless of when the attackers arrive. There are way too few target objects for the given number of assets who can carry bombs. The A135 distance problem only exacerbated the issue, but it was not the cause of it.


The first wave to attack the target was a NOE raid.  Allied CIC created the orders for that.

Axis had no idea there was a planned NOE raid.  Tell me how is there supposed to be a fair way to counter a NOE raid?  Do the Allied and Axis CICs need to send each other their Orders to ensure defenders can be at the right place and right time?

Why was there no thought from Axis side to plan for the possible scenario of an Allied blitz?  If there is only a single target, then Axis planning didn't account for a NOE raid.

Did the Axis scouts take time to climb for altitude?  Did the Axis defending squads take time to climb for altitude?  Was the T+60 rule so ingrained for planning that the Axis assumed Allied planes would climb for altitude also?

Is your OP more a design issue or should this be a textbook example of one CIC set of Orders being more effective against another CICs set of Orders? 
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2020, 11:11:33 PM »

The first wave to attack the target was a NOE raid.  Allied CIC created the orders for that.

Axis had no idea there was a planned NOE raid.  Tell me how is there supposed to be a fair way to counter a NOE raid?  Do the Allied and Axis CICs need to send each other their Orders to ensure defenders can be at the right place and right time?

Why was there no thought from Axis side to plan for the possible scenario of an Allied blitz?  If there is only a single target, then Axis planning didn't account for a NOE raid.

Did the Axis scouts take time to climb for altitude?  Did the Axis defending squads take time to climb for altitude?  Was the T+60 rule so ingrained for planning that the Axis assumed Allied planes would climb for altitude also?

Is your OP more a design issue or should this be a textbook example of one CIC set of Orders being more effective against another CICs set of Orders?

You obviously have not read what other the Axis players have been saying in this thread. Fighters were sent to A135 as fast as they could possibly get there expecting a fast, low-level attack. It was not possible for them to arrive in time to intercept the first wave.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2020, 11:11:53 PM »
I edited my post above to act like a Xanax for Devil 😈, he is really getting worked up..

"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2020, 11:13:25 PM »
You obviously have not read what other the Axis players have been saying in this thread. Fighters were sent to A135 as fast as they could possibly get there expecting a fast, low-level attack. It was not possible for them to arrive in time to intercept the first wave.

I'm sure that the FSO CMs have taken notice
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline AKKuya

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2020, 11:16:29 PM »
You obviously have not read what other the Axis players have been saying in this thread. Fighters were sent to A135 as fast as they could possibly get there expecting a fast, low-level attack. It was not possible for them to arrive in time to intercept the first wave.

I see.  Thank you for that clarification.

Frame 2 will have the Allied objective being farther away.  This should give Axis the time to properly setup a solid defense.

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2020, 11:31:08 PM »
In all honesty the below quote is how I view it
Quote

or should this be a textbook example of one CIC set of Orders being more effective against another CICs set of Orders?


Go test your Axis interceptors flying fast and straight to the objective field to see if you can or cannot beat an NOE attack from any of the bombers or attack fighters....

Please post results here
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:38:11 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline perdue3

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2020, 03:45:54 PM »
In all honesty the below quote is how I view it

Go test your Axis interceptors flying fast and straight to the objective field to see if you can or cannot beat an NOE attack from any of the bombers or attack fighters....

Please post results here

Devil performed this test prior to Frame 1. The result of that test led to his initial post. Frame 2 looks like it will be a much different story.

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Offline Vulcan

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Re: FSO December - D-DAY "White Flag"
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2020, 05:46:37 PM »
IMHO, and remember I've played FSO for a long long long time, the Axis are obviously playing far to sober.