Author Topic: Don't move your controller to rapidly  (Read 1094 times)

Offline BuzzLightyear

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Don't move your controller to rapidly
« on: February 19, 2022, 08:48:41 PM »
Don't move your controller to rapidly.... that sentence should be stricken from the English dictionary. There's nothing more frustrating then seeing those words appear, having your plane lock up and auger or worse yet get shut down when you are not moving your controller to rapidly. Better yet when you're not even using a controller that you could move to rapidly..

 This question I wish to post to the VR community is specific to those players who fly exclusively with touch controllers. For those who do not know the touch controller is the hand controllers that come with oculus rift, quest, HTC Vive fact I believe all of the VR headsets come with touch controllers. There's one controller for each hand and there is a button that you press and hold which simulates gripping an item.
 Dale has done the most phenomenal work setting up the architecture for integrating touch controllers in aces high.
It is so good that I forget that I'm holding in touch controller and my brain thinks it is actually holding the flight stick Inside the plane. I've been using them exclusively for four years straight, and say what you will, And I know that there is no physical force feedback because you are literally holding a small controller in your hand in a position where the flightstick would be. But I will be darned if I don't feel feedback. Especially at lower speeds and near stall.. Or trying to prevent a 152 for example from entering a spin. I feel feedback. I have not used my hotas In four years. No other flight Sim In vr can come even remotely close To the masterpiece architecture that Dale has set up in this game. No that is specific to aircraft with a flight stick in the cockpit. When it comes to yoked aircraft, well now there is a different story altogether and the reason for this post and question to the community. Because as it stands right now there is a bug that makes it impossible to fly a yoked aircraft with touch controllers in VR.
My first question to the VR community, beside myself and dub dub's, how many of you are flying with touch controllers exclusively?
My next question is specific to those who use touch controllers exclusively to fly with. How many of you touch controller flyers get locked out of the controls with the Infamous message, do not move your controllers to rapidly went flying a yoked aircraft and you get into proximity of an enemy?  For me it is 99% of the time. That takes out almost half of the aircraft in this game that are unusable to me. I've studied this problem in great detail in too much frustration. I can be flying in a straight line and look down at my hand which is gripping the right side of the yolk and for no reasonAnd with no movement flying straight and level watch my hand bounce between the left and right grip position on the yolk. It will do this for about 10 seconds and then boom locked out with the message don't move your controller to rapidly. It does not matter what yoke plane I am flying. B25, P 38, mosquito, A20 etc. etc. there is a conflict in the code where in the headset is making some kind of special realignment check or some random special realignment check within the game that is causing it to glitch because it is confused and does not know if you're holding the left or the right side of the yolk. I have been very cognizant of my hand position taking extra care to make sure I am not moving it too far to the left or too far to the right to possibly caused this confusion this happens with zero movement. And it really sucks when this happens especially when you're flying troops in a goon and right before you get to the drop point you get locked out and crash and then your squad mates think you're an idiot and you missed the opportunity to The base. Those of you that use a flight stick how is it that a flight stick can control it yoked airplane? Anyways that's a different topic and so you don't experience what I do in heaven no way of understanding the frustration of having it happened to you over and over and over and over again. I wish there was a way to disable that feature for individuals using touch controllers. Or even better if you could simply turn off the left grip position on a yacht airplane for VR touch controllers I believe it would solve the issue. At any rate I'm open to any suggestions. And I'm curious number one to see how many players are flying exclusively with touch controllers like me, and two are they experiencing the same issue. God bless and thank you for listening

Offline Easyscor

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2022, 10:06:28 PM »
The reason for my reply is that I have a question. Do the touch controllers vibrate in response to stick shaker now? I haven't bothered trying them since my early Rift days.

I have both the Rift and G2 :aok. I found using the Rift touch controllers nearly impossible to fly with even without a yoke setup.
I've heard that the Index controllers are best, but expensive and unavailable for the most part. And I've looked, I can't find a set with base stations at a reasonable price to try out.
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Offline Drano

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2022, 07:16:41 AM »
Sam, the touch controllers suck for this. We've had this conversation already. Give it up. Use a stick like everybody else flying in VR and your experience will improve dramatically.

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Offline BuzzLightyear

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2022, 12:03:24 PM »
The reason for my reply is that I have a question. Do the touch controllers vibrate in response to stick shaker now? I haven't bothered trying them since my early Rift days.

 Thanks for the question easy, When you say stick shaker, do you mean the actual motion of shaking the controller while holding the virtual flight stick ( better known as "stick stirring") and the trigger mechanism for being locked out of your controller while being told to "not move controller too rapidly"?
 If thats what you mean, then my answer is two fold.  The short answer is no. I have never felt a vibration when it happens. I'll be just flying along, in a bank or pulling from a dive and then literally for no reason the plane stops responding. A quick peek at the chat box  and  there's the message "DMYCTR".
  But I feel I really need to expand a bit, because honestly, I dont know what stick shaking or stick stirring is or how to do it. even when I flew with my HOTAS, I never shook my stick (unless after peeing while standing)..
 
 BUT>> and I feel this is the most important detail regarding my issue.. I have never experienced this problem while flying a plane with a virtual flight stick. Not once. Ever. Not a single flight stick aircraft that I have flown has ever locked me out "dont move controller too rapidly" Not in any vehicle, not in any boat, or gun position either.
 I am very smooth with my actions while holding the virtual flight stick, even in a dogfight. I limit my hand motion to the range of the aircrafts stick in the cockpit.
 This issue is literally very specific to aircraft with a yoke. I can be flying in a straight and level condition with ZERO HAND movement and look down and see my virtual hand flickering between the left and right hand grip position of the yoke. I have also noticed that it triggers when I get within a certain distance from an enemy object, static or not.
 This is the reason I am restricted to flying the 410 and 110. I would much much rather be flying the P38 and Mossy instead but I can't because of that stupid "dont move controller too rapidly".. I have never seen that in any other flight sim I have ever played. I dont even really understand what the heck it means and why it is part of Aces High. but I hate it and it ruins my experience and makes any yoked aircraft in Aces High unplayable for me or anyone else that chooses to fly with touch controllers. To emphasize, I have never experienced this problem while flying an aircraft with a flight stick, regardless of how radical the manuever.

I am convinced it is because of the proximity of the left and right hand grip positions to eachother on the yoke and the code being confused as to which one you are holding.  When flying a yoked aircraft which hand do you use? Do you fly with your right hand or your left hand? I dont use both hands to grip the yoke, only the right hand. Visualize it for a moment. As you rotate the yoke clockwise or counter clockwise to execute a turn and your hand and yoke grip reaches the 12 oclock or 6 oclock position, how does the game code know if you are holding the left or right side?
 the proximity is too broad and its confusing itself.. thats why I'll see my virtual hand flickering between the left and right grip position just before getting locked out.

 Those other 99% of you using a HOTAS to fly yoked planes are essentially cheating and can never even experience that lockout problem because you are not rotating any control mechanism clockwise or counter clockwise to achieve left or right roll as is necessary with yoked aircraft. When you lean your hotas stick left or right the game code simulates that you are rotating a yoke clockwise or counter clockwise. Basicly the code lets you fly yoked aircraft exactly the same as an aircraft with a stick. And that alone gives HOTAS users a gigantic advantage over me or anyone else thathappens to have an actual yoke setup. its programmed cheating. Take the fligt stick out of a P51 mustang and put it in a P38 instead of a yoke and thats what all of you HOTAS user get to fly with.. Super lucky you, Super sucks for me.

Drano, I understand how you feel about touch controller flying, but FOR ME personally, and after 4 years, I can no longer tell any difference and most of the time now I forget I am holding a touch and not the actual stick in plane. my brain tricks me into thinking its the stick in plane i am actually holding. its weird and cool. I would also argue that thos unfortunate souls who have perished under my guns or have failed to shoot me down would agree that there is not a big enough difference to give one an advantage over the other. Am I the best pilot in the game? NO, not even close, but I am damn good, better than most I would even boastfully say.. But in this game, against this community, you better be damn great pilot because every one of you is a top 3 graduate of TopGun!!

 Honestly, if there was a battle between Aces High fighter pilots and IL2 fighter pilots, it would be a massacre. Thos poor fools wouldn't know what hit them. In 25 years flying combat sim, I have never seen such incredible skill as I have in Aces High.. It's humbling on those days (like yesterday) when nothing I do prevents me from getting shot down.. and itsalso an incredible sense of accomplishment to get the best of an Aces High Ace in the sky, in a dogfight.. Picks, Vulches, HO's excluded..
Thank You all of you for this unmatched incredible life experience everyday and most deeply and sincerely sorry to those of you I frustratingly turn into a big jerk to. I really dont mean to be and am literally and very hard trying not to get all toxicly raging tantrum like.. Please do forgive me for those of you I have rage offended in the past.

Offline Drano

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2022, 01:54:19 PM »
Sam, and I know it's you. You just went on a rant saying how much this is messing you up and then say you don't notice the difference between the touch controllers and hotas. But it didn't happen to you when using the hotas? Bet it did. Problem is with your understanding of why you get that message.

It has absolutely nothing, nothing at all, to do with what plane you're flying. Nothing at all to do whether it's a fighter or bomber or biplane. Stick or yoke. Nothing. It has EVERYTHING to do with the input the game gets from >YOUR< controller. It is designed to stop people from trying to thwart the smoothing code by jerking their stick around faster than it can compensate for. The idea is only someone doing it on purpose, with a faulty stick, or bad connection is doing it. That causes their plane in the view of others to spin and jetk around the sky. And believe it or not ... That's not cool. If the code sees that happening for whatever reason it disables your controls momentarily telling you that you're having a problem. So correct the problem! Or not. Maybe you're doing it on purpose thinking you're getting some advantage so it accomplishes the same thing which is better game play for everyone else by stopping that from happening.

The touch controllers aren't accurate enough for this. Period. They work. Great. But by your own admission they don't work well enough. So we're agreed. If the goal is to get better, stop looking at your hands. Adjust your head position so your nose isn't on the instrument panel. I've seen your vids. Look around. The level of SA you need to use is happening outside your cockpit. Get your stick setup back and you'll do a lot better.

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Offline Easyscor

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2022, 09:27:58 PM »
Have you ever noticed that your controllers vibrate and make a buzzing sound when they pair or reactivate after sleep mode. This is what I was asking about.
When a plane crosses into stall, you feel the buffeting through the controls and AH simulates this. It's what made Microsoft force feedback joysticks so popular back in the day.
I was simply asking if Hitech had implemented some kind of force feedback into the VR touch controllers, envisioning as I was, increasingly frequent vibration pulses as you reached stall. That would have been cool, but not enough reason to give up my HOTAS setup.
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Offline BuzzLightyear

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2022, 07:26:08 AM »
Sam, and I know it's you. You just went on a rant saying how much this is messing you up and then say you don't notice the difference between the touch controllers and hotas.

 Im sorry Capt incorrect... quote my "rant" where I said that... then go and read it again thouroughly so you fully and truly understand what I said.. Then and only then can you intelligently comment on my post. currently you posted based on assumptions from a skim only of my post.

Thanks,
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Offline Drano

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2022, 07:46:35 AM »
No. I'm not mistaken. We've had this conversation before. I'm not going back to look up the posts from yesterday or two years ago under your other name. It's the same post. That how I knew it was you still barking up this tree. Not like there's a flood of people looking to do this. Nah, just one.

 If you insist on using the touch controllers to fly then fine. Good for you. Use them. Just accept all the limitations that go with YOUR CHOICE to use them against the advice of people trying to help you see otherwise. There isn't a problem with the game. They aren't accurate enough for this. Because of that they trip the warning. Period. There is zero chance of removing the "stop moving your stick" thing globally because WAAAY too many people would immediately take advantage of it.  It's there for this EXACT reason. I've explained it to you. Try reading my post. A lot shorter than yours. Not hard.


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Offline Eagler

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2022, 09:07:59 AM »
You can't seriously play this or any flight sim with at least a joystick

Stop trying and get off your wallet/ or purse and go get one

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Offline BuzzLightyear

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2022, 01:00:54 AM »
 Eagler, my good man, I have a very nice Thrustmaster HOTAS in my closet, I seriously enjoy and feel more realism by reaching down and grabbing the stick that is actually in the cockpit. doesn't get much realer than that. The HOTAS only has a small percentage of the range of motion that a WWII fighter has. And lets be honest here, I've shot down every one of you just about as much as you have shot me down and I'm doing it in the worst dogfighting planes. The BF110 and 410, The TA152 (great plane but super spin prone). All the while you guys are flying 190D's yak 3's, LA7's Spit 16's.
 Why then is my score/rank the way it is? Because I am less concerned with death thanyou guys. I will keep spawning at a base under heavy attack and get vulch raped  while you guys get vulched once and go up at some other base. I will turn and help a mate getting double or triple teamed instead of running home to land my 2 or 3 kills. I will aggressively dive into a bird pile instead of circling high above waiting for just the right bird to pick.. those moves gets me killed. I will chase a guy straight into his ack before I let him run away from me only to turn and shoot me in the back when I let him live and rtb. just my style of play. if i flew the same premium planes you all did then you would really feel the advantage of touch flying.. I just wish I could turn off the left grip of the yoke so the glitch would stop.. You guys still havent explained to me how your hotas Stick can rotate clockwise/counter clockwise to roll a yoked aircraft.. If you are serious about accuracy and proper flight controls then you wouldnt use a flight stick to fly an aircraft with a yoke.. apples and oranges..

 Tell you what, I wont talk about it anymore, I will show you. Start March 1st, I will fly premium planes so you can see how easy it is to outfly the best in the game using touch controllers AND without any check six snap views.. Time to put the matter to bed. If I dont, then I'll forever shut my piehole.

 P.S. Eagler, you are one of those Aces that strikes fear in me when I know its you engaging me..

Offline BuzzLightyear

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2022, 02:27:19 AM »
Sam, the touch controllers suck for this. We've had this conversation already. Give it up. Use a stick like everybody else flying in VR and your experience will improve dramatically.

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 Drano, Just because you suck using the touch controllers to fly does not mean that it sucks for everybody. I happen to do very well with them. I've used HOTAS for 20 years before playing AH.  I like flying touch better, its more real. What sucks for you does not automatically suck for everybody. remember that.

Offline Drano

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2022, 05:50:49 AM »
Just keep giving me my quarterly reminder so I don't forget.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2022, 07:26:25 AM »
I agree with Drano, touch controllers suck. There is no tactile feel to the control, and they lag. How can it " feel" more real? All your doing is waving your hands around in front of you. At least with a HOTAS you can feel the stick, the pressures, the movement. And as for the lag they are a joke.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2022, 07:48:31 PM »
No. I'm not mistaken. We've had this conversation before. I'm not going back to look up the posts from yesterday or two years ago under your other name. It's the same post. That how I knew it was you still barking up this tree. Not like there's a flood of people looking to do this. Nah, just one.

 If you insist on using the touch controllers to fly then fine. Good for you. Use them. Just accept all the limitations that go with YOUR CHOICE to use them against the advice of people trying to help you see otherwise. There isn't a problem with the game. They aren't accurate enough for this. Because of that they trip the warning. Period. There is zero chance of removing the "stop moving your stick" thing globally because WAAAY too many people would immediately take advantage of it.  It's there for this EXACT reason. I've explained it to you. Try reading my post. A lot shorter than yours. Not hard.


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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Don't move your controller to rapidly
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2022, 09:32:24 PM »
Jesus Buzz have you proposed to your touch controllers yet?  Met their parents?  Are you planning on touch controller babies in the near future?

If you're so in love with the damn things go play a game that caters to them.  You currently get to play.  I currently do not.  Granted that's by personal choice until I have the system, the gear, and the practice time to feel worth a damn now that my finances are coming up but when in Rome dude.  This game caters to sticks etc.  That's just the way it is.  Live with it or boogie on down the road but for the love of God quit squeaking about it. 

I just re read your posts because I'm bored off my bellybutton and even being out of the game for a decade all I can hear is 'wah wah wah.. I'm not getting my way so I'm going to throw a fit'. 

And when you get called out you get defensive as hell.  What are you?  12?  Grow up dude. 
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