Author Topic: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*  (Read 6432 times)

Offline Busher

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2022, 06:06:53 PM »
This will not end well :rolleyes:
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #121 on: December 02, 2022, 06:22:27 PM »
This will not end well :rolleyes:

It's all good.  I'm just going to ignore the riff raff.   They speak from a position of galactic stupidity and ignorance.    I may not always see eye to eye with the professionals on here like yourself or Puma44, but I respect your positions regardless.   Hopefully the reverse is also true.    You can tell those [of us] that have from those [of them] that have not.   This has been a good thread so far, with the exception of an obvious two or three rabble rousers.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 06:24:06 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2022, 06:41:33 PM »
It's all good.  I'm just going to ignore the riff raff.   They speak from a position of galactic stupidity and ignorance.    I may not always see eye to eye with the professionals on here like yourself or Puma44, but I respect your positions regardless.   Hopefully the reverse is also true.    You can tell those [of us] that have from those [of them] that have not.   This has been a good thread so far, with the exception of an obvious two or three rabble rousers.

You should really try to control yourself.
No need for the insults.

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #123 on: December 02, 2022, 07:22:09 PM »
You should really try to control yourself.
No need for the insults.

Coogan

This coming from the guy that has chased me all over these boards for years slinging insults and innuendo.    :rolleyes:

If the shoe fits...    :ahand
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Offline Maverick

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2022, 09:19:08 AM »
I'm just going to wait for the NTSB report. Any discussion absent the actual evidence available to them is simply an exercise in what if. I wasn't there, I don't have access to all the information and I really don't care all that much about speculation.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #125 on: December 03, 2022, 11:14:10 AM »
I'm just going to wait for the NTSB report. Any discussion absent the actual evidence available to them is simply an exercise in what if. I wasn't there, I don't have access to all the information and I really don't care all that much about speculation.

Good point.  Additionally, with many different experience levels, there are different opinions, which we are all entitled to.  That being said, there’s no need for the name calling from either side of the “discussion”.  :salute



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Offline LCADolby

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #126 on: December 03, 2022, 06:06:45 PM »
Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.
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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2022, 07:11:40 AM »
Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.
That is in the preliminary along with no discussion of altitude deconfliction.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #128 on: December 04, 2022, 09:34:56 AM »
That is in the preliminary along with no discussion of altitude deconfliction.

Altitude deconfliction and never go belly up to another aircraft are the most basic requirements of flying multiple aircraft in close proximity.



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #129 on: December 04, 2022, 10:36:31 AM »
Altitude deconfliction and never go belly up to another aircraft are the most basic requirements of flying multiple aircraft in close proximity.

And, as I pointed to early on in the thread, there were NO altitude deconfliction rules between the fast movers and the heavies in the briefing.   I find this flabbergasting in the extreme. 

No altitude offset AND a non-briefed showline crossover.    The Air Boss led them right down the primrose path on this one.   
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 11:57:14 AM by Vraciu »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2022, 11:02:36 AM »
Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.

The fighters had a 40-50 knot speed advantage throughout.     The thing that was fatal was his directive for both groups to change showlines. 

That is inexplicable, particularly in light of the fact that no altitude offset was briefed.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 11:58:54 AM by Vraciu »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #131 on: December 04, 2022, 02:16:14 PM »
Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.


It will, or is, falling to the air boss to explain this flight path change and the lack of altitude deconfliction.  Such a basic safety issue.  Curious as to what his explanation is for the change of flight path directive.



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Offline fuzeman

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2023, 06:37:43 PM »
Blancolirio has a video out with the Airboss’s conversation.
No opinion on his conclusions and I know some don’t agree with his POV.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Re: CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2023, 09:13:44 AM »
Blancolirio has a video out with the Airboss’s conversation.
No opinion on his conclusions and I know some don’t agree with his POV.


 What a shame. Very hodge podge from such a great and knowledgeable group as the Confederate Air Force.
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