CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*

[Vraciu]

Busher, the basic answer is an appropriate speed all aircraft in the formation can maintain safe control.

If you’ve ever seen the Heritage Flight displays at air shows, you’ll see WWII aircraft in a formation mix of aircraft from then to the Korean War to todays latest and greatest.  The WWII fighters are peddling as fast as they can to maintain control and fly close formation.  A lot of training and proficiency are required to make it look good and be safe.  That is why a Heritage Flight Training Conference is held every year at Davis Monthan AFB to train new pilots and gain proficiency for the established pilots.  As can be seen here the fast movers are somewhat “slow flying” to stay in formation.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmbcwcyJ/C326-CDE6-DEEF-4-C99-88-A8-D0-E6-B6-DF69-DD.jpg[/img]

I my F-106 squadron, we had four T-33s which were used as intercept targets for the Sixes.  We would routinely return from the working airspace with a mixed formation like this. The six pilot would have to slow to about 250 knots for the T Bird to stay in formation.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdHqNYpP/AF55-B512-869-A-459-A-B1-C5-A039-AA8-E989-F.jpg[/img]

Not sure I'm grasping how this is relevant to this particular case other than lead staying slow enough for the two wingmen to maintain their interval--which I think he did.   

The fighter formation in The Parade is not a close-up one like you are describing.  It is an interval.  I call it echelon in trail (for lack of a better term) or trail.  It depends on a number of factors what they use, but generally the fighters do a loose trail one by one.

I've been watching this show for 46 years.  The Parade is just that. It is not a formation like the Heritage Flight

[Citabria]

Tragic loss of situational awareness on the P-63 pilot.

Incidentally the pretentious YouTube personality Dan G. represents everything I despise about aviation culture quite well. His informative flight path graphics are tarnished when carbon dioxide escapes from his face hole unfortunately.

[Puma44]

Not sure I'm grasping how this is relevant to this particular case other than lead staying slow enough for the two wingmen to maintain their interval--which I think he did.   

The fighter formation in The Parade is not a close-up one like you are describing.  It is an interval.  I call it echelon in trail (for lack of a better term) or trail.  It depends on a number of factors what they use, but generally the fighters do a loose trail one by one.

I've been watching this show for 46 years.  The Parade is just that. It is not a formation like the Heritage Flight

Well, grasp it like this.  It’s simply an answer to Busher’s question, like a side bar.  Busher, does that answer your question? 

[Vraciu]

Tragic loss of situational awareness on the P-63 pilot.

Incidentally the pretentious YouTube personality Dan G. represents everything I despise about aviation culture quite well. His informative flight path graphics are tarnished when carbon dioxide escapes from his face hole unfortunately.

 

[Vraciu]

Well, grasp it like this.  It’s simply an answer to Busher’s question, like a side bar.  Busher, does that answer your question?

I gotcha.   Sorry.   

[Vraciu]

Some more angles in this video.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6vRDrMBHs

[DmonSlyr]

Some more angles in this video.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6vRDrMBHs

I saw one new short video in that one, the rest are all of the ones you posted. I really hope the feds have more and longer videos than those to go off of.

[Eagler]

What's the difference?

These things are so rare ..it was a horrific accident caused by the fighter

Peace to those left behind

Eagler

[Busher]

Well, grasp it like this.  It’s simply an answer to Busher’s question, like a side bar.  Busher, does that answer your question?

Yes, thank you.

[Shuffler]

Former Commander and Flight Leader of the USAF Thunderbirds...

[Vraciu]

Can't watch this until later.   Would you give a quick summary?

[Vraciu]

I think he did a great job of explaining many of the things we've discussed here. 

Now all we can do is wait...

[nopoop]

A new view.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1321542681922481?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

[Oldman731]

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/online-learning/early-analysis/rbd-airshowmidair?utm_source=epilot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=asi+products

Richard McSpadden is now AOPA's safety officer, basically.  He was commander of the Thunderbirds, so he knows something about airshows.  If you don't have time to view the 15 minute video, he basically backs up Vraciu and Puma.  P63 was outside his (sacred) show line and probably should have aborted, rather than try to continue joining up.  P-63 belly blocked his view of the Fortress.

But there are some other interesting factors he talks about.

- oldman

[Widewing]

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/online-learning/early-analysis/rbd-airshowmidair?utm_source=epilot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=asi+products

Richard McSpadden is now AOPA's safety officer, basically.  He was commander of the Thunderbirds, so he knows something about airshows.  If you don't have time to view the 15 minute video, he basically backs up Vraciu and Puma.  P63 was outside his (sacred) show line and probably should have aborted, rather than try to continue joining up.  P-63 belly blocked his view of the Fortress.

But there are some other interesting factors he talks about.

- oldman

A friend of mine is a regular flying airshows for the Planes of Fame. He mentioned two simple rules he adheres to. If you see that you're going to cross the showline, announce it on comms and CLIMB out of the racetrack pattern. Getting above the parade altitude immediately reduces risk. From above, with a clear view of the parade, reentry is much safer when cleared to do so. Loss of situational awareness and/or tunnel vision are the usual causes.