Author Topic: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation  (Read 3235 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2023, 01:20:29 AM »
Hitech posted stats one time.  I don't have the link handy, but from memory that out of the thousands and thousands that downloaded the trial during the Steam launch, the significant majority didn't stay 30 min and most never got off the runway.

There was no data about getting off the runway. When AH went to Steam it was using a catastrophic non-usertested interface for non-joystick users (of which the percentage was high). It linked controls and view in a puke-inspiring manner. That was possibly a significant contributor to people not sticking around.
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Offline Bopgun

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2023, 08:24:56 AM »
How about F2P dive bombers. VAL JU87 Sbd, give the hangar queens new life.


Edit Typo
« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 09:38:37 AM by Bopgun »
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Offline TWCAxew

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2023, 09:07:04 AM »
How about F2P dive bombers. VAL JU87 Sbd, give the hangar queens new live.

If it was my company I would think this is an great idea  :aok
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2023, 09:58:00 AM »
If it was my company I would think this is an great idea  :aok


Here is a different reply from Hitech.

I find his argument weak.  He makes some assertions about why he thinks a F2P sub-set of planes wouldn't help.  Yet he has not explained why such a model has been so successful in games like WT.

Worse case is that none of those F2P'ers would subscribe.  But maybe you'd still have a more populated arena so that the players that are paying can have a better gameplay experience with a populated arena with planes to shoot at instead of an endless commute on auto pilot to increasingly harder to find fights.  Maybe that makes the arena look more appealing to potential customers.  It's the best\cheapest AI you will ever implement. ;)

More F2P'ers mean more people possibly telling their friends about the game.  Some of those other friends might subscribe.  That's the cheapest advertising you'll ever buy. ;)

Doesn't matter.  Being in charge doesn't make you right, but it does give you the last say.  It's his money.

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,402218.msg5331095.html#msg5331095

« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 12:57:20 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Fenin

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2023, 11:51:04 PM »

Here is a different reply from Hitech.

I find his argument weak.  He makes some assertions about why he thinks a F2P sub-set of planes wouldn't help.  Yet he has not explained why such a model has been so successful in games like WT.

Worse case is that none of those F2P'ers would subscribe.  But maybe you'd still have a more populated arena so that the players that are paying can have a better gameplay experience with a populated arena with planes to shoot at instead of an endless commute on auto pilot to increasingly harder to find fights.  Maybe that makes the arena look more appealing to potential customers.  It's the best\cheapest AI you will ever implement. ;)

More F2P'ers mean more people possibly telling their friends about the game.  Some of those other friends might subscribe.  That's the cheapest advertising you'll ever buy. ;)

Doesn't matter.  Being in charge doesn't make you right, but it does give you the last say.  It's his money.

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,402218.msg5331095.html#msg5331095

I see where he's coming from, clearly the issue is not the planeset if 65% of players never even leave the main screen.  Those players would likely never even realize there were free to play planes.  Those are people who are leaving before even getting a chance to realistically interact with the software.  It's no different than opening something like Foobar, not liking what you have in front of you, and closing it again to use something you know and trust more (Winamp, in this example :P )  Even if Foobar offers benefits you don't realize you're missing it's simply because something immediately put you off.  Customers, especially paying ones, can be very very finicky when they have lots of options. 

Which, I'd argue they don't have lots of options at all.  Take the Pacific Theater of WW2 combat aviation.  As it sits right this moment their only options are 1) War Thunder, 2) Il-2 1946, 3) Aces High III, and 4) Warbiiiiirrrds (okay, I had to, lets be real.  Steam Warbirds is way more dead than AH3.) 

1) WT offers a huge playset, but next to no 'depth' to its gameplay for the average player, this is by design.
2) Il-2 1946 is aged, but still quite active with its modding community. 
3) We offer depth of play, but have other issues like lack of non-playing community awareness, and UI difficulties.
4) Hahahaha, Warbirds was dead in like 2006 when I finally got the chance to try and join these communities the first time.  I'm amazed it exists in any form.  (Though, I'd love to tear into its source code and play with some of it.  Especially the much older codes.  :x )

The closest we have to a Pacific WW2 aviation experience that isn't Il-2 1946 or AH3 is the F4U Corsair being added to DCS at some point in the future, which will have some secondary stuff that's very interesting buuuuut sort of vibes in the abyss like many other DCS modules do with not enough secondary bits to make an interesting scenario.  Unless you call shooting down 190As painted like IJN/IJA Aircraft 'interesting.'   :uhoh

Though... I shouldn't talk, it's not like this community hasn't ever unloaded the cannons from a zero and pretended they were Ki-43s in scenarios before the Ki-43 got added.

I'm tangenting hard.  A development strategy has to start somewhere to move forward, I hope Dale is working towards something ultimately. 
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2023, 09:07:02 AM »
I see where he's coming from, clearly the issue is not the planeset if 65% of players never even leave the main screen.  Those players would likely never even realize there were free to play planes.

What the realize is they've just been shown a dialog stating they will be limited to two week trial and then must pay  a $14.95.  Not being able to continue to play with a limited F2P planes like WT would let them.

Boom. 
Lost sale.

Why should I even bother to look further?  Why bother to configure my stick or waste time learning arcane dot commands?  Or wander an empty map?  Most players probably start out thinking they would never agree to a subscription.  Most WT subscribers probably thought that too. 

Never give a potential customer and excuse to say no. Giving them an ultimatum is a perfect excuse for them to just give you the finger and uninstall.

Again, go to Steam, filter the review to negative only and read.  Dated graphics, low player count, confusing UI are all in there. But it seemed to me no F2P level only a two week trial and then subscription was the biggest common complaint I saw.

Menu reorganization would be helpful, but it seems to me something more fundamental would have to be changed to alter the current market rejection.

Which won't happen.  I don't believe your menu changes will either.

AH has reached an evolutionary cul-de-sac.  Hospice mode.  No real improvement is likely.  It's a matter of just trying to keep the remaining customers as comfortable as possible until the inevitable end comes. 

Enjoy the skin batch releases.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 12:02:13 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2023, 09:47:43 AM »
 :rolleyes:
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2023, 10:09:41 AM »
:rolleyes:

I call things the way I see them.

You'll get over it.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2023, 11:58:09 AM »
:rolleyes:

Prove him wrong Spikes. Unfortunately I think he is hitting pretty close to the mark. When Kenai's recent european map was released I was hoping Hitech had turned his attention back to the game, but so far we havent seen anything other than the standard skin releases.

 :(

Offline Spikes

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2023, 01:08:12 PM »
I call things the way I see them.

You'll get over it.


Get over what? I don't think anybody really disagrees with you. But do you ever think that perhaps HT is content with the product he has created and doesn't want all of these changes people are suggesting?
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2023, 01:37:16 PM »
But do you ever think that perhaps HT is content with the product he has created and doesn't want all of these changes people are suggesting?

I absolutely believe that.  Exactly so.

That is exactly why I don't think there is any more innovation in AH's future. 
That is exactly why I don't think there is any chance of HTC challenging long held assumptions about monetization models, or two-sides, or anything else.
That is exactly why I don't think there is any chance of nightly players numbers increasing back above 250 again.
That is exactly why I don't think there be very many Squeakers coming on to replace lost comrades and continue with a new generation.
 
We're now on a terminal glide slope.  If you are not willing to change anything, then I don't see how you change the outcome.  And that might be acceptable.  ;)

I think you will continue to get breaking bug fixes.
I think you will continue to get minor tweaks to configurations.
I think you might get a Vulcan engine.  Not sure what that will do. 
I think you will continue to get player made content like skins and terrains.
I think you will continue to have player run events.
I think you will continue to have a slowly declining player count until you reach some colony-collapse threshold.

 :rofl  I love the reoccuring Ms. Swan character.   You could NEVER get away with that today.   No network would touch with a 10 foot pole!  :rofl



« Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 02:40:54 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Fenin

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2023, 05:29:44 PM »
Get over what? I don't think anybody really disagrees with you. But do you ever think that perhaps HT is content with the product he has created and doesn't want all of these changes people are suggesting?

Because hope is on our end when there's no active clear development, denying communication feels awful for us as customers and players.  We want to know what's going on, and in view of lacking that information we chatter about what we hope is going on. 

Every single one of us wants AH to be better, not a single player who has ever put in their two weeks, months, years, decades or otherwise undisclosed period of time wants to see the game slowly keel over and capsize.  Even if it takes years for it to do so.  It is only natural to assume that the person who has put in the topmost level of hope and time directly into the experience would feel the same, but to an even higher degree. 

I know I have for the open source stuff I've been team lead on, watching my first server run out of steam after 5 years was heartbreaking.  Watching my own community start to disappear into the night made me miserable.  We're not to the end yet with Aces High, not at all, but it's visible.  It's clear that if massive change doesn't happen then the path doesn't change.  I learned hard last year that you just have to get up and keep trying, and I'm very glad I did. 

Now, I can absolutely respect Dale being 'done.'  The concept wouldn't be surprising in any way shape or form.  He's been up to this type of game for a very long time, especially if you include the time spent on stuff before Aces High.  The issue that I personally have is that I'm afraid the source code and dev tools will languish on a hard drive and become lost media at some point in the next few years and no one wants to see that, but I probably feel that way because I'm exactly the type to want to chew into it and look around and figure out how it works.

Aces High has also proven quite capable of being something that can withstand the test of time though, which is irrefutable imo since we're all still here chatting about it so long after its original release that the kids born on its release date have a high percentage chance to have their own kids now. :P



 
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Offline potsNpans

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2023, 06:22:34 PM »
I would like to see a a three tier rotation, Earl, Mid, and Late.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2023, 08:16:33 PM »
I would like to see a a three tier rotation, Earl, Mid, and Late.


So would I, but imagine the outrage from the I-want-to-fly-what-I-want-whenever-I-want-to crowd.  Yikes.

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Offline Lazerr

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2023, 08:50:45 PM »
We can make a midwar arena can't we?