Author Topic: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills  (Read 1488 times)

Offline Animl-AW

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Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« on: February 25, 2023, 11:59:25 AM »
Straight out of the box, I don't expect this to change. Which may moot the following.

I'm failing to understand why proxy kills even exist as a setting.

If I squint my eyes just right, I can kinda see it as somewhat a reward in an actual dogfight, where they have actually landed some strikes, or they do something that sucks you in and causes you to crash, which is your own error. I can see that. Their flying, for whatever reason caused you to crash. Got it.

However, If I run out of fuel with no fight, no damage, and nowhere to safely land, clip some trees and crash and anyone nearest me, with no involvement at all, gets rewarded with a kill.

This doesn't disrupt game playing, but IMO it's just an oddity that doesn't need to exist as it is. IMO, it needs to be leashed, it just seems too wide open and inclusive. It can't really be gamed easily, but it does alter scoring, and if we're going be score based, it needs to be more accurate if it's to even be used at all.

Not that I expect this small detail to be tended to, but if we're going after reality and scoring it probably should be. It's not a major production to tweak.

I'm not sure an algorithm can accurately decide if one crashed due to a fight with another, unless there was a strike, which may already be decided by a different one.

It's just my opinion, which is lucky to be worth 2 cents, that if it can't be tweaked to not give out erroneous rewards it shouldn't be used at all. I just see no place for it. It's just using up coding space.

These little oddities, when they become numerous, can affect new players opinion of the game, it's not realistic. The number$ need to come up.

These type of tweaks don't require an over-haul of the core product, it's simply a very easy tweak, dump it.

It's just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it :)

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2023, 12:11:14 PM »
I think its the kill vs death thing in the scoring. If you clip a wing on a tree and "Die" because the game cant give you a ditch then you die. If you die, someone needs to have the kill.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2023, 12:30:30 PM »
Why am I thinking that "proxy kills" are not included, with regard to scoring (it only affects the kill count showing) 🤔
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2023, 12:39:04 PM »
I think its the kill vs death thing in the scoring. If you clip a wing on a tree and "Die" because the game cant give you a ditch then you die. If you die, someone needs to have the kill.

Thanks for your input.
Out of due respect, your last sentence is the part I disagree with. I don't believe someone "needs" to have the kill. I think "You Have Crashed" covers that, points deducted from your own score. If I were to decide to become a lawn dart, someone else is rewarded who had nothing to do with it.

This is not a massive big deal, it's just an irritant to me. I'm new-ish, I may be missing something, a lot. But a new player is new-ish too, and they aren't going to take the time to understand. It just logs in their brain as "well that's stupid". Don't let that happen too often.

Sometimes, we need to view it through eyes of those who are not vets and deeply involved. As being fresh, I have that opportunity to see things on the surface. New players tend to look at the surface. The deeper one gets into a game or programming or other things, the more they can miss the small stuff.

I'm not going to jump off my balcony if it doesn't change, but IMO it should. <shrug>
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2023, 12:41:32 PM »
Why am I thinking that "proxy kills" are not included, with regard to scoring (it only affects the kill count showing) 🤔

I am too new-ish to know, but if it effects the kill count, would that not also effect scoring? I'd love to be wrong on this.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2023, 01:12:55 PM »
I am too new-ish to know, but if it effects the kill count, would that not also effect scoring? I'd love to be wrong on this.

Heck, I can not remember, just had the thought...

As far as someone getting a proxy kill on me,  I normally will tell them "you're welcome" , LOL

I do understand where you're coming from regarding new players views
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Drano

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2023, 01:34:12 PM »
Gotta admit when you're getting vulched only to see the vulcher go splat next to you is pretty satisfying when you get the kill.

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Offline Slade

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2023, 01:56:21 PM »
I always wondered about proxies' value to the game too.

It would be cool if say for every 4 proxies you are awarded a kill.

Also some planes, given the skillset of a pilot, are proxie machines (C202 for many).  This would cause such planes to be used more, i.e. knowing they are getting something out of it.  :old:

Just a thought.  :salute
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2023, 02:03:49 PM »
Gotta admit when you're getting vulched only to see the vulcher go splat next to you is pretty satisfying when you get the kill.

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True enough, but ya didn't earn it. It's more of a "so ha ha" moment.

P.S. I've been that lawn dart vulcher lately, lol. Sometimes I yank out of it, sometimes I don't.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2023, 02:07:02 PM »
I'm failing to understand why proxy kills even exist as a setting.

Because some players will bail from their plane when they start to lose the dogfight, just before you get you a gun solution on them. That's also why proxy range got increased to icon range a few years ago. I had a lot of bomber pilots bailing on me when getting in icon range, and they saw I fly a "dangerous" plane. This happened much less after that.



For clarification on scoring:
Proxy kills count as full kills in regard to k/h, k/s and so on (if applicable in your selected scoring mode). The only difference to 'regular' kills is the kill point value, it's just 1 point for a proxy kill (1+damage value for regular kills)
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Offline popeye

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2023, 02:10:54 PM »
Not sure how the algorithm would know if you crash when fighting or just crash near an enemy.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2023, 08:06:20 PM »
Because some players will bail from their plane when they start to lose the dogfight, just before you get you a gun solution on them. That's also why proxy range got increased to icon range a few years ago. I had a lot of bomber pilots bailing on me when getting in icon range, and they saw I fly a "dangerous" plane. This happened much less after that.



For clarification on scoring:
Proxy kills count as full kills in regard to k/h, k/s and so on (if applicable in your selected scoring mode). The only difference to 'regular' kills is the kill point value, it's just 1 point for a proxy kill (1+damage value for regular kills)

Thanks for the clarity. I sorta knew there had to be some reason,...It sounds like an Anti-Dweebery setting, most oddities are. ... but unless one knows the story it makes no sense at all. I knew someone would chime in and explain it.
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Offline Bopgun

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2023, 08:43:07 PM »
Maneuver kills are counted in real life. I feel like proxies can usually account for those.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2023, 12:02:36 AM »
Thanks for your input.
Out of due respect, your last sentence is the part I disagree with. I don't believe someone "needs" to have the kill. I think "You Have Crashed" covers that, points deducted from your own score. If I were to decide to become a lawn dart, someone else is rewarded who had nothing to do with it.

This is not a massive big deal, it's just an irritant to me. I'm new-ish, I may be missing something, a lot. But a new player is new-ish too, and they aren't going to take the time to understand. It just logs in their brain as "well that's stupid". Don't let that happen too often.

Sometimes, we need to view it through eyes of those who are not vets and deeply involved. As being fresh, I have that opportunity to see things on the surface. New players tend to look at the surface. The deeper one gets into a game or programming or other things, the more they can miss the small stuff.

I'm not going to jump off my balcony if it doesn't change, but IMO it should. <shrug>

I didnt mean that it was a "player" issue that someone had to get the kill, is a computer issue, 1s and 0s, it all has to even out. For every flight there has to be a kill/landing/ditch

Offline Eagler

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Re: Goin Out On a Limb - Proxy Kills
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2023, 07:47:07 AM »
I know when I 1st started I was happy for any kill ....

I think that is why it is there...

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