Back to the bare metal Jug

[oboe]

"Dorothy K", flown by Lt Tallmadge Ambrose of the 373rd FG, 410th FS.  Not sure of the color of the tail flash.  Most sources show as dark blue, one model kit box art shows it as yellow.  I thought the red piping along the edge of the antiglare paint was attractive, and its interesting how the antiglare paint has an upward sweep on the dorsal fin.

This one is a little less restrained in the environmental map than the others have been.  Still have some layer level adjustments to make.

[Devil 505]

That metal work is just amazing.

[Vraciu]

Nicely done, Oboe. 

[lyric1]

Not sure of the color of the tail flash.  Most sources show as dark blue, one model kit box art shows it as yellow. 
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

For some strange reason I think dark blue. 







Still survives I think.

https://www.airfighters.com/photosearch.php?cod=42-28473%20%2F%202Z-P

[Greebo]

Great looking skin Oboe. Looking at the B&W photo it seems possible the fin flash colour may have been yellow at some point, so either colour could be right. Of course it could be some quirk of the film or a lighter shade of blue, so its good you have the colour photo as a solid reference.

[oboe]

I'll go with the blue, and darken it more.

Apparently the shield emblem is an unofficial 373rd thing; its always checked in one corner and solid color in the other, separated by a band, but the colors can vary (by squadron?).  I also found a 42-28473 skin in IL-2 Great Battles P-47D-28; they went with a yellow tail flash and just green and yellow on the shield.   But in the color photo lyric found, the solid color lower left almost looks dark blue, and the checkered area appears green and yellow.

[oboe]

Darker blue tail flash, widened the shield emblem & added a black section to the front cowl seen in some profiles. 



The pilot, Lt Talmadge Ambrose, once shot down FOUR Fw-190Ds in one day - on 8th April 1945.   Another fact, as Lyric pointed out, the airframe survived the War and had been restored and kept at the Planes of Fame East outside of Minneapolis, MN.  So I have seen this aircraft in person - though it was painted in 56th FG colors.  Apparently it was a hand-me-down to the 9th AF from the 56th.

[Vraciu]

Ha!   That's cool!

[oboe]

Maybe I should do this one next:

[Devil 505]

Oboe, I love the box art!

That black cowl section got me looking at the cowl in the reference photos. Here are my observations and thoughts:

1. Having a black section to the anti-glare makes no sense in general. OD green is clearly available since the fin fillet was painted OD after it was installed in the field.

2. In the color photo, what looks like a black section is probably a shadow cast from the prop blade. Seem in line with the shadow cast by the vertical stab.

3. In the B/W photo, the dark section of the anti-glare panel is just where a dark band in the original page scan meets the anti-glare.

[oboe]

Devil, thanks for looking closely and mentioning your thoughts - you made me pay closer attention and I caught something else that is off - between the photos and profile - I need to move the "R3" to the rear, closer to the insignia.  I relied on the profile for that spacing and its clearly wrong.

Regarding the black section, I take your point about the illogic of the color black, as the IL-2 skin and Eduard model box cover show.  I'm not convinced its a prop shadow, but I wonder if it could be a replacement front cowl ring, with a newer/darker OD green - perhaps the same shade used by the 56th FG, that I used on my 56thFG "Pat" P-47D-25.  "Dorothy K" did originally come over to the 373rd from the 56th.  The dividing line between dark and light appears to be midpoint on the left lobe of the heart, and this is pretty close to the boundary between the cowl ring and the other cowl panel sections.

What if I just finished it with a newer/darker OD green in that section, instead of black?  The width of the darker color would be about the same as the red band on "Balls Out", pictured above... 

Thanks for helping me get this one right!

[Devil 505]

Devil, thanks for looking closely and mentioning your thoughts - you made me pay closer attention and I caught something else that is off - between the photos and profile - I need to move the "R3" to the rear, closer to the insignia.  I relied on the profile for that spacing and its clearly wrong.

Regarding the black section, I take your point about the illogic of the color black, as the IL-2 skin and Eduard model box cover show.  I'm not convinced its a prop shadow, but I wonder if it could be a replacement front cowl ring, with a newer/darker OD green - perhaps the same shade used by the 56th FG, that I used on my 56thFG "Pat" P-47D-25.  "Dorothy K" did originally come over to the 373rd from the 56th.  The dividing line between dark and light appears to be midpoint on the left lobe of the heart, and this is pretty close to the boundary between the cowl ring and the other cowl panel sections.

What if I just finished it with a newer/darker OD green in that section, instead of black?  The width of the darker color would be about the same as the red band on "Balls Out", pictured above... 

Thanks for helping me get this one right!

Good point about it coming from the 56th FG. I didn't consider it the first time you mentioned it, but it may just be a cover-up of the red cowl ring. I think a darker green would be better than black.

[oboe]

I finished the change and it looks, well, odd - and I'm not sure if I converted to B&W it would look dark enough to approximate what is going on in the real B&W photos.

All this is guessing, but is there any chance it could be the same color as the tail flash - dark blue - as a recognition device?   Seems odd to me, as it seems unlikely dark blue would stand out well enough against the drab to be effective as an identification aid.

EDIT:

Found some more info!  Here is a picture of 42-28473 before she was assigned to Talmadge Ambrose.  This is where the wide black band came from.  This image is from a discussion on BritModeller forum. 

[Devil 505]

I finished the change and it looks, well, odd - and I'm not sure if I converted to B&W it would look dark enough to approximate what is going on in the real B&W photos.

All this is guessing, but is there any chance it could be the same color as the tail flash - dark blue - as a recognition device?   Seems odd to me, as it seems unlikely dark blue would stand out well enough against the drab to be effective as an identification aid.

Here's a closeup of the B/W photo.


Nothing on the cowl is dark enough to be black. It seems to me that the darkest area is caused by the curvature at the front as you can see the forward part of the heart also darkens there. There seems to be a middle tone above the heart, but it's only slightly darker than the area just forward of the cowl flaps and is no darker than the areas aft of the cowl flaps. Furthermore, the demarcation in the tones above the heart do not match the dark spot in the color photo.

Maybe the best option would be to put the skin on the D-25 with a completely OD anti-glare to match the B/W photo? Of course, that reopens the fin cap color can of worms.

Edit to address your edit with the photo of Ruth II:

The cowl color seems to match the location of the dark spot in the color photo, but not the first B/W photo. I wonder if the new photo is making red look black and it was only covered later when the fin fillet was attached.

The progression in that case would go like this

Ruth II with red cowl ring --> Dorothy K with no fillet and red anti-glare --> Dorthy K with fin fillet and dark anti-glare.


 

[oboe]

Naw, I just finished taking her back to the original wider black band on top.  The discussion on BritModeller and the photo of her as "Ruth II" was the clincher for me.   

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234939914-p-47-colours-bw-detective-skills-required/

The color photo also shows evidence of a wide dark band; I don't think is shadow, since it appears the sun is high in the sky and shining from the back right (leaving the left side of the dorsal fin in shadow).  One thing for sure, this A/C has seen alot of changes through out her service.   Yellow tail flash, blue flash, no flash - at least 3 different themes.  Looks like once she got the heart, there still wasn't an arrow through it for a while, and the name "Dorothy K" wasn't added til later.  It appears in the B&W photo there is a script name placed entirely below the heart.

I prefer her as a D-40 (actually a D-28 with a field mod to add the dorsal fin - perhaps this mod was done as she was being turned over to the 9th AF).  There are a lot of D-25 subjects to do, many more than D-40s, so happy to have this one on the D-40.

EDIT:

More info on wide black nose bands:

P-47 Thunderbolts including (serial number is 44-20230) at Mount Farm in August 1944. The black nose bands on the aircraft indicate they have not been assigned to a unit, and are likely on a delivery flight from Burtonwood. 44-20230 flew with the 53rd FS, 36th FG and more than likely retained the black nose bands throughout her tenure with the Squadron. 53rd airplanes flew with either bare cowlings or black nose bands, while her sister 36th FG squadrons flew with red (22nd FS) or black/yellow (23rd FS). They are likely being prepped to cross the channel to join up with the 36th on the continent. Image by Robert Astrella, 7th Photographic Reconnaissance Group. Written on slide casing: 'Mount Farm.'

Here's the Eduard Dorothy K model box art, which matches the IL-2 skin: