bullet drop

[The Fugitive]

Does anyone know what the bullet drop is on the guns for the 109s? Cannons, MG, and the gondola cannons.

I love flying the plane but cant hit anything in it. Looking to tune in my convergence and aim points.

Thanks

[Devil 505]

With the 30mm, set convergence to 400. The lob of the round puts it in the center of the gunsight at 200 and 400 yards.

I don't have a similar trick for the 20mm. I set it to 300 and will move it out more if I find that I'm only hitting the tail on crossing shots.

[morfiend]

At 400 yds the 30mm has a 40ft dispersion cone which is bigger than most fighters wing span.

The 20mm has a me of about 730 meters per second and a much tighter dispersion.


Personally I set the 30mm to 150 yds,this brings the round up to the piper at 150 and it rises slightly before it starts to drop. Most my conversions are set in close with 275 to 300 yds being the furthest out I use and that’s usually for mg’s only, most my cannons are set to 250 but I like to get close because I don’t see well.

Conversion is a personal thing with too many variables to say set X at Y conversion. I suggest you use the dot target aide and set a nice pattern for all guns then change to the lead calculating.gunsight and watch how much lead you need from various angles. One tip I have is try to unload the airframe as much as possible,when pulling G you will notice the rounds will drop farther under the nose,you can test this by flying a flat turn and watching where the rounds are going.

Hope this helps Fugitive.

[Mongoose]

Go to Offline Training, or the Training Arena, and use the .target command so you can see it.

.target xxx, where xxx is the distance you want the target, will put a great big target to your north at that distance.  You can put your pipper on the center, and see how far the bullets drop when they hit the target.

.target 400 will put the target at 400 yards.  .target 0 makes the target go away.

There are more variables you can use with the .target command, but this should be enough to tell you what you want.

[The Fugitive]

I was hoping someone had one of these for the 109s. this is for the P47 but it give you a good idea of the bullet patterns from the guns.



Devils trick is what I was hoping to figure out, where is the top of the curve or the round being shot. In the 109 I have trouble firuring out if Im missing behind, or underneath. I cant see the rounds so its just a guessing game. Using the .target command is good for what it is but again, in the heat of battle where the heck are my rounds going?

I fly the 109 for a month strait and get frustrated and jump back into a US plane with those 50s and get my groove back there, but I keep coming back as I just love how the 109 handles.

Thanks for the tips, Ill keep working on it.

[morfiend]

I was hoping someone had one of these for the 109s. this is for the P47 but it give you a good idea of the bullet patterns from the guns.

(Image removed from quote.)

Devils trick is what I was hoping to figure out, where is the top of the curve or the round being shot. In the 109 I have trouble firuring out if Im missing behind, or underneath. I cant see the rounds so its just a guessing game. Using the .target command is good for what it is but again, in the heat of battle where the heck are my rounds going?

I fly the 109 for a month strait and get frustrated and jump back into a US plane with those 50s and get my groove back there, but I keep coming back as I just love how the 109 handles.

Thanks for the tips, Ill keep working on it.

I used to have a similar graph for the 109 and 190 series planes but they were lost in the great computer melt down of 2018. IIRC the Germans harmonized the guns to converge at 400 meters. The rounds would rise above the visor point around 40/50 meters then drop back to the visor line at 400.
In AH the rounds rise to visor line at convergence setting, they don’t rise above and drop into at convergence like they did in RL.

I’d suggest you grab a friend and practice in the TA with the LCG which will show the lead required during a fight. That will allow you to get a better idea of the sight picture and may help with getting more rounds on target.

[The Fugitive]

I used to have a similar graph for the 109 and 190 series planes but they were lost in the great computer melt down of 2018. IIRC the Germans harmonized the guns to converge at 400 meters. The rounds would rise above the visor point around 40/50 meters then drop back to the visor line at 400.
In AH the rounds rise to visor line at convergence setting, they don’t rise above and drop into at convergence like they did in RL.

I’d suggest you grab a friend and practice in the TA with the LCG which will show the lead required during a fight. That will allow you to get a better idea of the sight picture and may help with getting more rounds on target.

OK, so first what is the "visor line"?

Second, your saying the vertical high spot that the rounds travel is at what ever convergence you set the guns to in AH, and that is at this "visor line". Right?

I try to set up crossing shots so Im not pulling through the shot and spraying like a garden hose. So if the top of the arc of the round is at convergence and I am firing AT convergence I am most likely NOT missing "under" my target. I am more likely not leading enough and missing behind the target is my thought.

[MiloMorai]

Bf109 gun harmonization, not convergence, chart

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7443-convergence/page/2/

[morfiend]

If you look at the side view chart you will see a line that comes out the cockpit,this is the eye level through the gunsight or the visor line… if you look closely the rounds rise above that and the drop back to visor line at convergences.

Like when shooting a rifle the round goes above the aim point then drops back to aim point at range.

In AH this doesn’t happen,instead the rounds rise to the visor line at convergence!

Hope that explains it and helps. Buster and I spent many hours testing when he was preparing to make his practice map.

If you look at the link Milo provided it clearly shows how it worked in RL,notice the mg’s rise above at about 40 meters and the 20mm do it around 200 meters,then they both drop back to the visor line at about 400 meters where the guns were set to harmonize.

Again though in AH they only rise to visor line at convergence distance.

<S>

[Oldman731]

Like when shooting a rifle the round goes above the aim point then drops back to aim point at range.

In AH this doesn’t happen,instead the rounds rise to the visor line at convergence!

This is certainly news to me.  So essentially I'm shooting under the target if I fire at 200 yards when my convergence is set at 400.

No wonder I'm such a pathetic shot!

Thanks for the information, will try to put it to use.

- oldman

[The Fugitive]

OK, so they only time I should be missing vertically is if Im shooting outside of my conversion/harmonics settings, and if I am Ill be shooting low.

Thanks for the harmonics diagram, im hoping to find more. Im thinking of maybe drawing my own when I have some time and Im sure I understand how things work in the game.

Thanks again guys.

[Devil 505]

Like when shooting a rifle the round goes above the aim point then drops back to aim point at range.

In AH this doesn’t happen,instead the rounds rise to the visor line at convergence!

Wait, there's no arc to the round in AH?

I forget who told me the 400 yard trick to the 30mm cannon, but it seemed to work. It definitely shouldn't if there's no arc.

[The Fugitive]

From what I understand, there is an arc but it is from the guns to the visor line/eye site line at what ever convergence you have set. The bullet drop happens after the convergence point.

[morfiend]

From what I understand, there is an arc but it is from the guns to the visor line/eye site line at what ever convergence you have set. The bullet drop happens after the convergence point.

Correct!


At 400 yds the 30mm has a 40. Ft dispersion cone which is larger than most fighter’s wingspan. HTC even modeled in the spin drift,you can test this using the dot target and a static aircraft. Buster would roll the A/C off the end of a runway to get it as close to level as possible then setup the target so he could test these things out.


  <S>

[Slade]

The bullet drop happens after the convergence point.

Always learning something new in this game.