Poland

[-gg-]

Isn't Biden a senile old fart?

Yes.

[Eagler]

I stated imo putin underestimated the globes resolve and now maybe the noise of his further expansion is just noise to keep it going..

Eagler

[CptTrips]

I stated imo putin underestimated the globes resolve and now maybe the noise of his further expansion is just noise to keep it going..

Eagler

He may have been hoping for more of you to carry his water for him in the West.

There are never enough "Useful Idiots" when you need them.

[Eagler]

Not sure how you think I support putin but you as usual are wrong again

I also wasn't for the Taliban when I didn't think we should be in Afghanistan for 20 years without an exit strategy

Eagler

[CptTrips]

Not sure how you think I support putin but you as usual are wrong again

So you are for providing Ukraine weapons to push the Russians back to their own borders?

Or do you think Putin should be allowed to keep large swaths of Ukraine?  So like, take a bit then negotiate a peace to rebuild.  Then take another bit and then negotiate a peace to rebuild, etc.  Chechnya.  Georgia.  Crimea.  Ukraine.  Romania.  Poland.  Latvia.  Estonia.  Lithuania.  Finland.


Negotiations can start as soon as Russia returns to it's own territory.  Until then, every dead Russian makes this world a better place and every single thing we can send to help kill more of them is God's work.

[LCADolby]

I hate to say this but peace was already had at the Minsk agreement, ~Nato send in Boris Johnson afterward to torpedo the agreement and cause the war.
Russians are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
While I believe wholeheartedly that there should be no bloodshed, there is war for a reason; Because Nato and Ukraine forced this war breaking its agreements. Nothing can change that fact

[DmonSlyr]

It's not going to matter now many weapons anyone gives to Ukraine when they have no more people willing to use them...

The UN global cabal is just as corrupt and deranged as Putin. Perhaps even more so, look at Covid... This war is because the UN cabal decided they were going to shrug off Putin and his 8 years of speeches to the UN regarding his issues with Ukraine and treatment of people in the north. Further more, it's 100% proven as facts that Tinybook and his boys are the Nazis and made deals with Soros and others, I mean we have McCain shaking his hand afterall. So we all know that since the coup of 2013 a lot went down and a lot has been corrupted by Ukraine "leadership" infact nothing really improved. And further we know that serious levels of corruption are going on in Ukraine when we have lobbyist like HB helping his father as VP and doing who knows what with Metabiota and the energy company there.

So you don't have to agree with any side or help promote anyway. Infact, Ukraine use to be Russia afterall, so would you say they "stole it" from Russia? Or who knows how long you want to go back, but this is not Soviet Russia we are dealing with. Infact, this is the most "free" Russia has been since 1901 because Putin didn't like soviet communism. He has yet gone more right wing and religious interestingly enough and now is labeled hatefully since the election of Trump as " the bad guy" from organizations that are now more left, ironically.

But isn't it's strange how, an organization such as the UN, is there to "stop wars" yet they promoted this one because they refused to acknowledge Putin and thought they could get away with their global take over corruption racket thru poor Ukraine, not in NATO, so as to use them as a proxy...

Again I feel bad for the citizens, but unfortunately they are stuck in between 2 power factions trying to use the state for their benefit.

[GasTeddy]

GasTeddy

Maybe before the invasion putin had larger plans..

I doubt now as he has seen what lengths nato went for a non nato country..our hawks here are wishing for an exuse to go all nato in..

Say whatever, this conflict like all others will end in peace of some sort, you can start talks now or later but they will start

Just wondering if the folks here are ready to send Americans into that conflict yet...or just more inflationary $$$

Eagler

Every conflict ends sooner or later, one way or another. In this case, it is the way it should be ending; russia has to withdraw its troops to 1994 treaty borders. It started this conflict and is the only guilty one, say russophiles what ever. And no, I don't count you as one, not at all.

I'm sure Putain was not expecting this kind of strong opposition, as he was left free to rave around in Georgia, Chechenia, Syria, Donbass and many of those former soviet -stans. Big mistake free world didn't react earlier, but it is this virtue signal era, where we just have to tolerate, understand and accept, era of loose wrist porridge pants. History has just shown his kind of madmen cannot be trusted. They may take a breath between conflicts, but they continue as long as they are able, unfortunately.

I hate to say this but peace was already had at the Minsk agreement, ~Nato send in Boris Johnson afterward to torpedo the agreement and cause the war.
Russians are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
While I believe wholeheartedly that there should be no bloodshed, there is war for a reason; Because Nato and Ukraine forced this war breaking its agreements. Nothing can change that fact

Could you please tell what agreements have been broken by Ukraine or NATO? If you mean "NATO will not expand to east"-agreement, there was never anything like that, no one single paper, document, treaty or contract. If someone verbally told russians NATO has no plans to expand, that is not a valid contract. And russia has shown how much it respects even signed ones, like that made 1994.

What was the treaty between Ukraine and Russia in 1994? On December 5, 1994 the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, United Kingdom, and the United States signed a memorandum to provide Ukraine with security assurances in connection with its accession to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state. Someone broke that and it was not Ukraine. And that treaty has something to do with the fact USA and UK are more than eager to end the conflict. But not the way tsar Putler wants.

[GasTeddy]

Infact, Ukraine use to be Russia afterall, so would you say they "stole it" from Russia?

How about other nowadays independent countries which have been part of russia? And no, russia is not the owner of Ukraine.

Or who knows how long you want to go back, but this is not Soviet Russia we are dealing with. Infact, this is the most "free" Russia has been since 1901 because Putin didn't like soviet communism. He has yet gone more right wing and religious interestingly enough and now is labeled hatefully since the election of Trump as " the bad guy" from organizations that are now more left, ironically.

Are you sure he didn't like communism? I happen to know a former high ranking Stasi officer, who worked with Putain in DDR. He has told some really interesting things about tsar. Things which do not belong in here, unfortunately, as they might change some opinions.

[Eagler]

Thanks Gas Teddy

Eagler

[DmonSlyr]

How about other nowadays independent countries which have been part of russia? And no, russia is not the owner of Ukraine.

Are you sure he didn't like communism? I happen to know a former high ranking Stasi officer, who worked with Putain in DDR. He has told some really interesting things about tsar. Things which do not belong in here, unfortunately, as they might change some opinions.

Ah, but if you refer to that article, I don't necessarily believe what he said about the soviet union means he wants it back. I think he meant that in more of a geopolitical sense and how it maintained state identity. What I'm trying to say though is that he doesn't run the country like the soviet union. Crazy this article is from 2005.

Here are some other quotes from the article.

“We are a free nation and our place in the modern world will be defined only by how successful and strong we are,” Putin said.

"Putin said the nation’s main political challenges included boosting the rule of law and judicial institutions and deepening respect for both individual liberties and the activities of non-governmental organizations."

I"n an apparent response to foreign allegations that Russia has been backtracking on democracy, Putin said Russia’s main political task was to develop as a free, democratic nation with European ideals. He stressed that individual freedoms would not be compromised by strengthening the state."

Ways must be found to collect taxes that “ensure the rights of state and don’t destroy the economy or drive business into a dead end,” Putin said.

[GasTeddy]

Ah, but if you refer to that article, I don't necessarily believe what he said about the soviet union means he wants it back. I think he meant that in more of a geopolitical sense and how it maintained state identity. What I'm trying to say though is that he doesn't run the country like the soviet union. Crazy this article is from 2005.

Here are some other quotes from the article.

“We are a free nation and our place in the modern world will be defined only by how successful and strong we are,” Putin said.

Showing strength (or in this case, lack of it) by invading neighbors is not the way to do it. Largest country in the world with every possible natural wealth should be also one of the richest but it isn't.

"Putin said the nation’s main political challenges included boosting the rule of law and judicial institutions and deepening respect for both individual liberties and the activities of non-governmental organizations."

Individual liberties and freedom of NGOs in russia are a joke. Law abides only those who agree in everything tsar says. Jails and cemeteries have lots of examples of those who didn't. They had a tendency to eat something what was bad for digestion, walk directly in to a bullet or have slippery shoes in speedboat at full throttle or some high spots without railings. Rank of those who he didn't like can be seen in the alt they fell from. Some fell from windows or balconies but so far Prigozhin is leading.

In an apparent response to foreign allegations that Russia has been backtracking on democracy, Putin said Russia’s main political task was to develop as a free, democratic nation with European ideals. He stressed that individual freedoms would not be compromised by strengthening the state."

Again same jokes combined in a bit different form.

Ways must be found to collect taxes that “ensure the rights of state and don’t destroy the economy or drive business into a dead end,” Putin said.

He did exactly destroy the economy and kill business with his senseless and selfish acts. If he acted like he talked, there were no war and not thousands and thousands killed and millions of people driven from their homes. If he acted like he talked, russia would be a welfare country and good, safe place to live but for some reason millions of russians had escaped from their country during his regime.

He is modern day hypocritical liar who's too scared to even show his nose outside bunkers. Just like Stalin, paranoid and living in imaginary world where everyone admires and respects him. Those have to be earned by actions, not by fear and terror.

Been there, seen that. Many things have changed since 80s, but mentality and atmosphere are still the same; don't look, don't talk, just agree and obey.

[rabbidrabbit]

I stated imo putin underestimated the globes resolve and now maybe the noise of his further expansion is just noise to keep it going..

Eagler

You should watch Russian state TV to get a feel for what the Russian gov is telling it's population.

Some examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqENT7ey0_M&ab_channel=RussianMediaMonitor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkc9QQQ0NWk&t=1s&ab_channel=RussianMediaMonitor

[Eagler]

Thanks rabbidrabbit for that perspective

Are these news casts at the level of our CNN or is this like a Rachel Maddox level of information?

I sadly can't believe much of our "news" programs these days

I can believe the Russian populous is just as gullible as the audience here..

I used to be like CptTrips...just look up my posts after 9/11 with us starting our unwinnable 20 year wars back then..
I was all for it

The last 20 years have shown the error of my thinking back then

If they wanted to stop this war they would

I imagine we have had 1000 chances to eliminate putin but have not for some reason ..

Just like we could have up and left Afghanistan but didn't...my guess is $$$$$ not some global security issue they spewed

✌️

Eagler

[rabbidrabbit]

Thanks rabbidrabbit for that perspective

Are these news casts at the level of our CNN or is this like a Rachel Maddox level of information?

I sadly can't believe much of our "news" programs these days

I can believe the Russian populous is just as gullible as the audience here..

I used to be like CptTrips...just look up my posts after 9/11 with us starting our unwinnable 20 year wars back then..
I was all for it

The last 20 years have shown the error of my thinking back then

If they wanted to stop this war they would

I imagine we have had 1000 chances to eliminate putin but have not for some reason ..

Just like we could have up and left Afghanistan but didn't...my guess is $$$$$ not some global security issue they spewed

✌️

Eagler

I understand where you are coming from and generally agree with your perspective.  In the case of UA , it takes some effort and critical thinking skills to wade through the volume of propaganda coming from every direction to understand the facts on how the war is developing.  It also takes effort to understand what is being said to what group of people.  The Russians in particular put out multiple narratives to different groups and the talking points to each often directly contradicts what is said to the other groups.    Those were just two of hundreds of examples of the message the Russian government puts out all day long on state media.  Polling of their population is consistent with state narratives which isn't surprising.  The war will be ripe for peace talks when that ideology can no longer be sustained.  Until then, talks of peace are just setting the stage for the next phase of the same process that has been going on since the break up of the Soviet Union.

They have a long history of crushing the truth with propaganda so the truth is indistinguishable from the specified narrative.  This is a critical point.  The bastion of a functional democracy is truth.  Truth is the enemy of Authoritarianism in any of it's flavors.   I would argue the devaluation of truth in our society is a dangerous undermining of our democracy.