Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable

[Eagler]

I will admit that if I had spent the time I have in AH in both IL2 amd DCS I would probably have a much different view of them

What dcs is most like ah? Icons on a map, icons on the planes?

It's the inability to locate a fight and then identify the plane if I can spot one that keeps me in ah

Eagler

[AKIron]

"I loved the P-38 but I got those kills in spite of the airplane, not because of it,' Olds recalled. 'The fact is, the P-38 Lightning was too much airplane for a new kid and a full-time job for even a mature and experienced fighter pilot."

 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/p-38-lightning-best-fighter-world-war-ii-208582?fbclid=IwAR2_ks4zg8aOSOGS-9p37mV5-ervWboZQMYvHBFbEFHP6EJJ7dI5z8M1vkU

[CptTrips]

What dcs is most like ah? Icons on a map, icons on the planes?

Well all that is there.  It's purely up to the mission designer how he wants to use them or turn them off.
The culture there, like many in AH, feel no-icons is more realism.
But it is there if the mission designer wanted.  Although, I think AH icons are better implemented.

The map icons and and inflight icons (they call them labels) have different info level configurations. 
Map icons can be configured from "Nothing"  just a map and you have to figure out where you are, to "Allies Only", to "Fog of War" show allies but only enemies in visual range of another friendly, or "All" show everything enemy or allied. 

Labels can be reduced to only a red or blue period '.' under the object which gives you at least IFF with minimal clutter.

There is a lot of configuration available.  You just have to find a mission designer who shares your preference or get someone to make you one like that.

The problem I have with their labels is they don't occlude.  So that would show through a cockpit frame bar. I guess labels there are not popular enough for them to prioritize improving that.  And like AH, I wish I had an intermittent button for labels.  Show labels as long as I hold it down but they go away when I let go.  So I can do a quick check, otherwise de-clutter my view.  That would be an improvement to both AH and DCS.

[AKIron]

I've spent very little time in multiplayer servers other than my own. But, DCS is mission oriented. That means you have an objective and carrying that out will bring you into conflict with the enemy. Many servers probably create missions that are persistent though with AI regenerating based on events.

[CptTrips]

I've spent very little time in multiplayer servers other than my own. But, DCS is mission oriented. That means you have an objective and carrying that out will bring you into conflict with the enemy. Many servers probably create missions that are persistent though with AI regenerating based on events.

Some are, some are just open sandbox capture the flag like Enigma's Cold War server.

[AKIron]

One area newbies to DCS often struggle with is the control mapping. While it works well it can get complicated. First thing you want to do in any aircraft is check the control settings. DCS will assign a default mapping for all aircraft and detected controllers. It will often map the same axis to multiple devices. You do NOT want that. The aircraft will go crazy and you'll think something is wrong. Just clear all but the ones you want. Also be aware that it can be set read or not read the controls on startup. If your fuel shutoff switch is in the off position and you do a hot start, guess what. 

[icepac]

So if i show up at DCS, will my unusual mission profiles cause them to squeeze the sim down to  something boring?

[AKIron]

Huh?

ED doesn't host any servers themselves. All servers available for multiplayer are provided by users. You can allow all non official mods, certain mods, or no mods. I think. It might be all or none.

[AKIron]

I want my F 4 E.

You can keep the MTV.

Brushing up on my air refueling skills while waiting patiently.

https://youtu.be/-aJclbIhRbQ

[edge12674]

This is my experience going to DCS WWII multi-player from AH.

I always preferred fighters and had spent 20+ years flying AH.  Despite positive reviews from fellow squadmates, I resisted trying DCS because it was “too complex” and I was “too old” to learn these complexities.  I was in a comfortable rut.

The “groundhog day” experiences of AH and its continued slow decay finally pushed me into the mindset “Right, lets learn DCS and see if this hobby is still worth it”. 

With the included kneeboards I realized I did not have to memorize as much as I feared.  Every aircraft has a “quick start” kneeboard checklist.  I also added customized kneeboards, such as pictures of my HOTAS button mapping and procedures I don't use often.

With DCS WWII multi-player I found:
1)   Historical plane match-ups
2)   A two country fight
3)   Less “gaming” of the sim and a serious will to fight
4)   Realistic sounding radio comms
5)   Weather and wake turbulence
6)   The uncertainty of aircraft identification in battle
7)   Survival is not assured till the wheels are chocked

I did not expect what the DCS experience gave me outside of the sim.  I live in an area that does a lot of warbird restoration and have had the opportunity to sit in the cockpits of several WWII icons.
With only AH experience, the cockpits felt familiar with regards to outside views and the basic “six pack” of instruments.  The rest of the cockpit was somewhat foreign (even though I was a private pilot).  Since DCS, when I sit in a real cockpit I bring a printed start-up kneeboard from DCS.  I do a “touch only” start-up sequence in the cockpit and it all feels VERY familiar. 

My passion has be reignited.  DCS gave me a new intimacy with the aircraft (both in mechanics and flight characteristics).  There is a new level of understanding when I reread some biographies I have.  Movies/documentaries seem fuller.   I have begun rereading “Fighter Combat”, which I have not done in at least a decade.

For anyone interested it trying DCS, you can do it absolutely free.  I can share some tips that allow you to try out all the major features without having a time limit to learn them.  Also if it has been awhile since you tried DCS, you might want to check in every now and then.  The sim is in a constant state of updating and even a few months see's significant changes.

https://youtu.be/mhLQNuxRqJQ?si=Y2p1US9jZq_hirZL

[GasTeddy]

With DCS WWII multi-player I found:
1)   Historical plane match-ups
2)   A two country fight
3)   Less “gaming” of the sim and a serious will to fight
4)   Realistic sounding radio comms
5)   Weather and wake turbulence
6)   The uncertainty of aircraft identification in battle
7)   Survival is not assured till the wheels are chocked

Honestly, I found these same in IL-2. And no, this is not advertising but opinion.

[CptTrips]

Honestly, I found these same in IL-2. And no, this is not advertising but opinion.

How do you feel about the new Korea franchise?

In my experience, hardcore WWII players are pretty inflexible when it comes to genre.  They dream of WWII and they want to play WWII.  I'm curious how many die-hard WWII fans are going to embrace the new Korea franchise.

Some will no doubt, but a lot might not and may start getting annoyed as seeing WWII development be put aside.   

No knock on Korea, but it was called the Forgotten War for a reason.  I'm just not sure it will have the same emotional resonance with their current base that is there to fly WWII.  I'm not even sure they can pull it off with the driving force of their GB series producer gone.  They were pretty dysfunctional before he arrived.  I suspect the center of gravity will pull them back to that state without his guidance.

I guess we'll find out.

[Eagler]

Imo both IL2 and DCS are both much better suited for missiles and radar as nothing is shown on the maps and there are usually not any icons..so Korea should be fine for that

Eagler

[GasTeddy]

How do you feel about the new Korea franchise?

I will try it, even I'm more fond of WW2. I have tried Mig15 and F-86 Sabre against each others in dogfight (WB) and found it pretty interesting.

[CptTrips]

as nothing is shown on the maps and there are usually not any icons

As explained again and again...all that is available.  Find an ex-AHer who thinks like you do to setup a server with those settings.  It's all available. 

I somewhat agree because I'm old and my eyesight is getting worse.  It's just not a popular option for that crowd  (on average they are probably in their 30's\40's instead of 60's\70's like AH), not that it isn't supported by the software.

Some of it is just due to unfamiliarity and old habits.  I have found the more I play the better I am getting at picking those dots up (then zoom the view to check) so some of it is just training your eye to recognize the pattern.

Ever been hunting with a noob and point out a deer to them in the distance and they simply can not see it even though you can clearly.  Until their brain has enough experience to recognize the pattern things can truly be invisible.

I remember doing glider training and entering the pattern and my instructor noting we need to keep an eye out on that Cessna to our 11 clk low.  I could not see it even though he was telling me where it was , then suddenly oh, there it is.  He saw it immediately because his wet-ware had been trained on that pattern recognition.  I had my glasses on so my eyesight should have been 20\20.  My brain just didn't recognize the pattern yet.