Author Topic: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014  (Read 5139 times)

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2024, 11:14:56 AM »
The Battle of Britain happened in 1940, Japan declared war on the U.S. in 1941.

Whoops didn't look it up, it's been a while since I've brushed up my ww2 history. There always anti war people though just look at the current university protests.




Well, there you have it.

Reward the aggressor.  Allow them to keep their spoils and they will stop there.

Peace in our time?  Yeah, that always works.

(Image removed from quote.)

So you are ignoring the fact that Soros was a nazi whose being an aggressor on Russians border. Got it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2024, 11:44:55 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2024, 11:30:13 AM »
So you are ignoring the fact that Soros was a nazi whose being an aggressor on Russians border. Got it.

Wait. 

Did Soros launch a column of tanks into Russia?  Missiles?  Did i miss that part?

Exactly how many regiments are under Soros' command?  Do you have a TOE?

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline AKIron

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2024, 11:33:40 AM »
Soros was 14 when made to work for the Nazis. Saw an interview in which he was asked if he had pangs of guilt for helping the Nazis take the Jews possessions. He said he did not. Who here wouldn't feel guilt for collaborating with the murderers of millions of their own people even if they were coerced at 14? 
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2024, 11:37:48 AM »
That is not accurate at all.

To use your rapist analogy:

You can either say that Person A and Person B are both rapists.

Or You can say that neither A or B are.

You have the right to state your opinion on what constitutes rape.

What you cannot say is Person A was justified. So it was not rape. But person B was not justified so it was. The same action was committed by both people so what ever your judgment about the action it must apply to both.

My point was that Russia's imperialism (rape) stands as a heinous act on it's own merits and making allegations of other (rapes) has nothing to do with Russia's actions.   Pointing towards those acts or allegations of is illegitimately justifying something that is unjustifiable.  There was no point in bringing up the point otherwise.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2024, 11:59:25 AM »
My point was that Russia's imperialism (rape) stands as a heinous act on it's own merits and making allegations of other (rapes) has nothing to do with Russia's actions.   Pointing towards those acts or allegations of is illegitimately justifying something that is unjustifiable.  There was no point in bringing up the point otherwise.

Quote
"You can't justify bad behavior by pointing at other bad behavior." - Bill O'Reilly
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2024, 12:00:56 PM »
My point was that Russia's imperialism (rape) stands as a heinous act on it's own merits and making allegations of other (rapes) has nothing to do with Russia's actions.   Pointing towards those acts or allegations of is illegitimately justifying something that is unjustifiable.  There was no point in bringing up the point otherwise.


It's not about justification. It is about creating an impartial and objective view of geo-politics despite personal nationality.


Any country where attacks against our homeland were launched from would be justifiably under self-defense.

GW2?  Meh.  Iffy.  Really just finishing up GW1 and Sadaam still refused to comply with the conditions of the last ceasefire.  We had a standing UN authorization to use force in Iraq.  We exercised our mandate.  Did Russia have UN authorization to invade Ukraine?

UN has no right to authorize or veto killing people. Self proclaimed authority. But it is alarming that you are able to justify one million dead Iraqis on the grounds of a UN green light.



Quote
Had military operations against Russia been launched from Ukraine to justify a self-defense argument?

Yes. The shadow war has never ended and you know as well as I do that operations by the CIA/MI5 are conducted globally at all times.


Quote
None of our military interventions have been for the purpose of naked territorial acquisition.  Putin isn't defending against an attack.  He wants that territory and simply wants to take it by force.

I cannot agree with your perspective on Putin's actions.

Quote
You'd have to go back to the Philippine Insurrection to find that for the US, and yes I think were were wrong back in 1899.

If you really believe that was the last time then I have nothing to debate on the subject.

Quote
And sorry, which countries has NATO invaded for the purposes of land acquisition?

C'mon man. Overthrowing a government, installing a puppet and adding a nation to the list of NATO gang members is just another version of territorial expansion.


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Offline GasTeddy

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2024, 12:07:31 PM »
Never stated that at all..

Did the dancing comic have a peaceful way out or not?

Eagler

Ronald Reagan was also an actor.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2024, 12:13:37 PM »

I cannot agree with your perspective on Putin's actions.


I bet you can't.
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Offline Busher

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2024, 12:39:50 PM »
I bet you can't.

I never cease to be amazed how many Americans find a decency in Putin. Guess they think 5th story windows, airplanes shedding wings and
novichok are all just stories.

And a disjointed Cesar Sayoc innuendo vilifies George Soros for life.
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2024, 12:40:19 PM »
Ronald Reagan was also an actor.

Yes I know..

As no one disputes it, mr.z must have run under the platform of signing a peace agreement,  then was told by US after winning his election to ignore that agreement as was outlined in the video at the beginning of this thread...

If Ukraine was OK with peace with putin, why weren't we?

Eagler
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2024, 12:53:40 PM »
Yes I know..

As no one disputes it, mr.z must have run under the platform of signing a peace agreement,  then was told by US after winning his election to ignore that agreement as was outlined in the video at the beginning of this thread...

If Ukraine was OK with peace with putin, why weren't we?

Eagler

I'm coming at this conversation as someone who has spent a considerable amount of time following this subject over the years and one thing that has been critical to understanding it has been listening to both sides of the conversation and going back when relevant to listen to what was being said when it happened.

Reading what you consistently write I can assure you the points you are basing your frame of reference on are extremely heavily biased towards what the Russians have been pushing through their IO since before the 2022 invasion.  The constant obsession with "Z-man" and belittling him based on his acting career for example is what the Russians put out weekly.  That isn't normal for a balanced observer of the conflict.  Another quick example is the false assumption the Ukes want peace and the west is pushing them to die by large numbers.  You should really be asking yourself if you should be doing at least some due diligence if understanding this conflict is more important to you than being a political activist.

Offline Skyyr

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2024, 01:07:11 PM »
This thread is hilarious. It's like a bunch of pre-pubescent boys arguing over which of them a supermodel would take to prom.

How many of you tards have actually spent time in Ukraine, pre and post war? How many of you have LIVED there? How many have been in-country and experienced the elections? How many can tell me who the top 5 front-runners for the elections were for the last two cycles, from memory (Google doesn't count)? How many of you speak Ukrainian? How many of you know what platform Zelenskyy ran on prior to him winning the election? How many of you are familiar with the subtle but not inconsequential ideological divides over Russification between the various Oblasts?

Please stop talking about topics you have zero first-hand experience in. There is so much cringe in this thread it'd make most Ukrainians hate you, regardless of which side you support.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2024, 01:11:25 PM by Skyyr »
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2024, 01:12:50 PM »
So long as my money goes somewhere I have paid for the right to comment on that.
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2024, 01:13:57 PM »
That is what I am asking...

What platform did he run on and did it change after he won as outlined in the video...

Not trying to take any side just trying to understand it

Eagler
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Offline RotBaron

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Re: Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2024, 02:54:07 PM »
Ronald Reagan was also an actor.

True, but had a ~23 year political career and governed California for 8 years (~30 million at the time).

Arguably the most popular President while in office if the measure is electoral victory:
1980: 489 Reagan v 49 Carter
1984: 529 Reagan v 13 Mondale.

Reagan even won Hawaii in ‘84 leaving Mondale with the only wins in Minnesota and D.C.

Popular vote margins were
1980: + 8 million
1984: + 17 million

Acting in westerns and war movies vs whatever this is ⬇️  Not the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkmI1BHAr8I
They're casting their bait over there, see?