Author Topic: Sig 365  (Read 323 times)

Offline 1Cane

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Sig 365
« on: August 10, 2025, 02:13:43 PM »
There is a video of a guy who jiggles slide and weapon discharges. I believe  a military unit took them out of service. I Believe Glock had a reputation for being dropped and shooting LEO's both are striker fired.
Once out of Army I bought a Colt 1911 is was an accurate Pistol. and if you ran out of ammo a great club.
Next after seeing movie Serpico got a Smith & Wesson  9mm with high capacity mag at a hardware store In Kalifornia in the good old days
 Finally with delays with DOJ over purchase of Smith & Wesson" was bought with 10 day waiting  period and they couldn't find record of 1978 purchase" I bought an HK 9mm  only complaint  magazine release is small an on rear of  trigger guard
All three guns have old fashion hammer.
All have worked great
Finally I have a taking care of business feeling with the hammer back.
What say you striker fire Glock or Sig owners
AkCaine

Offline uptown

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2025, 02:50:07 PM »
You ever tried a 1858 Remington .44 cal black powder revolver with a .45LR conversion cylinder? I have a GI issue 1911 and I don't know which one I like best between the two.

I've always stayed away from Sig and Glock for all the problems I hear about. I have been wanting to try out the High Point 10mm but I hear they're problematic as well.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2025, 02:53:18 PM by uptown »
Lighten up Francis

Offline hazmatt

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2025, 03:34:26 PM »
I Believe Glock had a reputation for being dropped and shooting LEO's both are striker fired.
What say you striker fire Glock or Sig owners
I don't own any Sigs and I've heard the top of the line ones are good but the budget ones seem to be not so good.
Although Sig denies it P320 appears to have some issues. ICE and some police departments (e.g., Dallas, Milwaukee) have stopped issuing the P320 due to safety concerns.


I'm no Glock fanboy but I do think that at that price point it is one of the better DAO firearms for new shooter. It' a gun you toss to somebody who's not very proficient and they can make it go bang. My wife is very good with her G19 and she's had a few firearms.
I have never heard about drop issues with Glocks and I've dropped one at least once.
Glocks have a three-part safety system, including a firing pin safety and drop safety. These prevent the firing pin from moving forward unless the trigger is deliberately pulled. So even if dropped, the internal safeties block accidental discharge. In short: No trigger pull = no bang, even if it hits the ground hard.

I have a Hi-Point 9mm that's a tackle box gun and for that it's great. It's reliable as long as you maintain it and don't use garbage ammo that the Glocks would shoot with ease.
I'd consider a Hi-Point 10 mm based on my experience with them and the fact that you can get it for under $200.

I found this comparison between the two:
Feature                  | Glock "Safe Action" System         | Sig P320 (Pre-Upgrade)
------------------------|------------------------------------|-------------------------------
Trigger Safety          | Yes – integrated safety tab        | Yes – but lacked external safeties
Drop Safety             | Proven drop-safe design            | Some models had drop-fire issues
Manual Safety         | Rare (mostly LE/military variants) | Available on some models
Internal Safeties      | 3 automatic safeties               | Varies by model and generation
History of Discharges  | Very rare accidental discharges    | Multiple lawsuits and reports



Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2025, 06:05:41 PM »
Here's an interesting video about it. Surprised Sig Sauer is trying to act like nothing wrong...

https://rumble.com/v6x0fq0-why-is-the-military-still-fielding-this-gun-sig-sauer-is-toast.html
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2025, 06:46:17 PM »
That's interesting. Sticking a screw in the trigger kinda looks like a setup and the fact that the same thing causes other firearms to discharge makes me wonder how credible that one is.For sure if I had one of those I wouldn't carry one in the chamber.

I usually don't have one in the chamber anyways 'cause I have kids around I I figure it's an added safety step I can take and I can rack a slide pretty quick.

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2025, 10:25:35 PM »
You ever tried a 1858 Remington .44 cal black powder revolver with a .45LR conversion cylinder? I have a GI issue 1911 and I don't know which one I like best between the two.

I've always stayed away from Sig and Glock for all the problems I hear about. I have been wanting to try out the High Point 10mm but I hear they're problematic as well.

I had a 1873 ( I think, may have year wrong) copy of a .44 8" black power revolver, what a beast. Problem with BP on revolvers is the residue builds up quick and it takes full strength to pull the trigger after about 5-7 shots. So if you don't nail it with in the first 3-4 shots, good luck

Still in love with my original 1985 .357 mag 6" Colt Python. Was offered $4k for it,.... NOPE
« Last Edit: August 10, 2025, 10:46:14 PM by Animl-AW »
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Offline 1Cane

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2025, 11:09:29 PM »
Have always carried round in chamber.
AkCaine

Offline uptown

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2025, 05:19:14 PM »
I had a 1873 ( I think, may have year wrong) copy of a .44 8" black power revolver, what a beast. Problem with BP on revolvers is the residue builds up quick and it takes full strength to pull the trigger after about 5-7 shots. So if you don't nail it with in the first 3-4 shots, good luck

Still in love with my original 1985 .357 mag 6" Colt Python. Was offered $4k for it,.... NOPE
That's why I bought the .45LR conversion cylinder. No gumming and no misfires...no black powder needed. The only downside to it is, you won't pack it around without being noticed because it's a hog leg for sure. It is heavy but not much more so than my 1911. It has the 8" barrel. Ever in a shoulder holster it's pretty noticeable.  I load 5 rounds and keep the 6 chamber empty to prevent it going off when dropped or something. Kinda a safety if you will. Pull the hammer back and she's ready to go.  :rock
« Last Edit: August 11, 2025, 05:26:09 PM by uptown »
Lighten up Francis

Offline Tumor

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2025, 10:07:25 PM »
Have always carried round in chamber.

Me too.  All makes/models & calibers.  I've moved to carrying revolvers almost exclusively.  I don't know why really... but the warm fuzzy factor is higher.  Maybe because not once ever have I had a malfunction or failure to fire beyond bad ammo.  Or maybe I'm just old fashioned.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2025, 02:35:12 PM »
Me too.  All makes/models & calibers.  I've moved to carrying revolvers almost exclusively.  I don't know why really... but the warm fuzzy factor is higher.  Maybe because not once ever have I had a malfunction or failure to fire beyond bad ammo.  Or maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Both
I'm exactly the same.
It's not going to jam.

And if ya need more that 3 shots you allowed yourself in the wrong situation.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2025, 02:43:42 PM »
That's why I bought the .45LR conversion cylinder. No gumming and no misfires...no black powder needed. The only downside to it is, you won't pack it around without being noticed because it's a hog leg for sure. It is heavy but not much more so than my 1911. It has the 8" barrel. Ever in a shoulder holster it's pretty noticeable.  I load 5 rounds and keep the 6 chamber empty to prevent it going off when dropped or something. Kinda a safety if you will. Pull the hammer back and she's ready to go.  :rock

Not sure they were available in the 80s-90s. If so I was clueless. They are hard to conceal.
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Offline icepac

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2025, 03:54:17 PM »
That's interesting. Sticking a screw in the trigger kinda looks like a setup and the fact that the same thing causes other firearms to discharge makes me wonder how credible that one is.For sure if I had one of those I wouldn't carry one in the chamber.

I usually don't have one in the chamber anyways 'cause I have kids around I I figure it's an added safety step I can take and I can rack a slide pretty quick.
   

Reminds me of how Audi got set up by journalists.

Even on the models where it has become obvious, It only happens when the slide to frame connection wears and gets sloppy.

Other sigs similarily designed have the same issue for the same reason but they are in unpopular calilbers mostly or you would hear more of them.      P232 looks suspect but only in cases of extreme wear.........meaning almost enough wear for it to bind or come off.   

Proper gun care isn't observed by everybody so expect the non-maintainer's guns to wear a lot faster than yours.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2025, 03:57:25 PM by icepac »

Offline hazmatt

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2025, 04:54:05 PM »
   Proper gun care isn't observed by everybody so expect the non-maintainer's guns to wear a lot faster than yours.

You mean there's more to it then taking the gun out of the tackle box and using a wire brush to get the rust off of it?

Offline 1Cane

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 03:58:05 AM »
Me too.  All makes/models & calibers.  I've moved to carrying revolvers almost exclusively.  I don't know why really... but the warm fuzzy factor is higher.  Maybe because not once ever have I had a malfunction or failure to fire beyond bad ammo.  Or maybe I'm just old fashioned.
I am alive because first 2 rounds misfired on a revolver third missed me and as I was taught in the Army take immediate action.
AkCaine

Offline Widewing

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Re: Sig 365
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 10:05:44 AM »
I own nearly 40 handguns. I first learned to shoot a revolver at 11 years old (1964). That was a police issue Smith & Wesson Model 10, chambered in .38 Special. I own a 1974 Smith & Wesson Model 15-3, which is improved on the old Model 10. Mine is in nearly new, perfect condition. These were made when craftsmanship was a thing.

Among the many semi-autos I own, there's not a SIG among them.

Why? I had some experience with the P226 and P229. These date to the era of all metal "wonder nines". They are large, heavy and hammer fired double action/single action types. Reliable, accurate and heavy. Duty guns. SIG's polymer frame pistols never appealed to me. Even the micro-compact P365 was not something I wanted. Instead, I bought a Glock G43 and a G42 (.380 ACP, aka Browning 9mm Kurtz). Later, I added a Springfield Hellcat and Taurus GX4. All are micro 9s, and all have been trouble free.

As to the issue with the SIG P320/M17/M18... I have shot factory stock and highly customized P320s. I have never enjoyed shooting them. Why? The high bore axis (distance between the bore centerline and frame beaver tail) induces greater muzzle flip. The fit of the slide to the frame rails is sloppy at best. That sloppy fit indicates not only a design issue, but exacerbates the risk of the striker being released under certain conditions. It is probable that unique tolerance stackup combined with excessive vertical slide motion can, when jostled, release the striker. Sticking striker safeties are not uncommon.

Understanding how the P320 came to be is worthwhile knowing. SIG had fallen behind in the polymer frame striker fired tech race. To regain some market share, the hammer fired P250 was quickly reengineered as a striker fire pistol. SIG did not use the industry standard modified Browning action, used by Glock, S&W, Springfield and the like. As an engineer, I did not like their action. Too many potential failure points. Safety is dependent upon torsion springs that can be knocked askew or simply slip out of retention. The Army performed a MTBF analysis and concluded that between .008 and .012 percent of M17/M18 pistols will be or become safety defective. That seems statistically insignificant, but having 34 to 50 pistols that can fire uncommanded is not insignificant. Especially when stacked on top of the usual negligent discharges. Especially when compared to the Glock G19 and G19X, which are several orders of magnitude less likely to experience similar failures. Glocks do not have fully cocked strikers. That means even if the striker safety fails, there's not sufficient spring force to detonate a cartridge primer. Glocks use trigger pull to fully cock the striker.

The other pistol passed over is the Beretta M9A3, which is hammer fired with a de-cocker. They physically cannot fire uncommanded. The DOD was not enamored with the much improved Beretta. It was not modular and was an all metal pistol. Most issues with the older M9 were the result of the DOD cheaping out on magazines. They could have purchased factory magazines or commercial MetGar mags, but went with the lowest bidder. Those magazines were cheaply made and the finish tended to collect dust and debris internally, resulting in jams and failures to feed. When the M9 entered service, several suffered cracked slides. Beretta acknowledged the issue and redesigned the slide to eliminate the high stress point. They then provided replacement slides for all pistols in service. They ate the cost. SIG is still denying that there's potential issues with the P320 types.

So, what should SIG do? At the least, they should hire an independent engineering firm. They should provide this firm with a full drawing package. Then, this firm can model the design in SoildWorks or Catia and apply full tolerance stackups. If there is a possibility that a specific stackup can result in an unsafe condition, SIG can then adjust tolerances to eliminate that problem. Then, develop an inspection procedure to identify those pistols at risk.

Pistol recalls are not uncommon. The difference here is that SIG has nearly a billion dollars at stake.

With all of this said, keep in mind that this issue is unique to the P320 type. All other SIG pistols are safe, including the P365 which does use a version of the ubiquitous Browning action.

Here's a few of my pistols. All of these have red dot optics installed.
Zig-zagging from top left:
Springfield XDM OSP Compact Elite 45 (10+1 in .45 ACP)
Arex Delta Gen 2 Model L (19+1 in 9mm)
Canik TP9SC Elite subcompact (15+1 in 9mm)
Ruger RXM (based upon the Glock Gen 3 G19, with everything the Gen 5 G19 should have, but doesn't (15+1 in 9mm)


« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:09:24 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.