CENSURE certain squad name ?

[Duckwing6]

Agreed 100% with RDRedwing .. i couldn't put it better.

oh and btw .. I AM over it .. but there will be things in Human history that won`t be forgotten and therfore will always cast a black shadow (and thus be offensive by nature to some people) ... so is the use of Waffen SS as a Name -> forbidden by law btw in Austria.

Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger

[Revvin]

I think you are all jumping the gun, if the Waffen SS members want to form a historically based squad then let them, if however they start following the ideals of this squad and start yelling 'Heil Hitler' over the main arena channel then I am sure not only will the community act but HTC will act as well to put these guys out of the game.

AGW must be quiet, Cabby the troll has popped up

[Greg 'wmutt' Cook]

While studing society, I have come up with several universal laws that apply to humans when living in groups.  The first of these, "Wmutt's first rule of social interaction", is:
For every freedom, there is an equal responsability.
So while we now have the freedom to name our squads whatever we choose, be it Waffen SS or Fatty's left Buttock, or whatever, we will loose that freedom when we give up the responsability of using names that are reasonable in nature.  As to who is to decide what 'reasonable' is, that falls to each one of us to independently decide.  Personaly, I don't think I am too offended by Waffen SS, but I could see how might terrebly offend some persons, so I would not choose it.
I equate it to the current anti-smoking laws here in California.  As long as some moron insists that his personal right to light up in a crowed movie theater is more important than his responsability to behave in a reasonal manner with reguard to his fellows, we need a law saying he can't.  It's sad, but it is product of society.
So what we should do is inform this Squad leader, in a polite and civilized manner, that the name he has choosen will offend certian persons.  Then if he is not the moron from my above example, he will change it.  If not, maybe we, as a group, do not have the responsability to have such freedom.

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Greg 'wmutt' Cook
332nd Flying Mongrels

[ibreh]

Hi all

about the SS / Waffen-SS:
the original waffen-ss was the personal life guard of adolf hitler, the SA was the "political fighting unit" of the party before the WWII. in the beginning afaik the SS was 1 regiment strong, the "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler". This regiment became later the wellknown 1st SS armoured division. Simply said mr. himmler (reichsfuehrer SS) decided that he wants an own army of his men, politically loyal to the nazis. Thus more and more units were raised, beside others for example one unit was recruited by the guards of the concentration camps, i think it was the 3. SS division "totenkopf". they were fighting units , but they were very fanatic, and as nonoht and straffo said they committed many warcrimes. as far as one can read most times they were often very hard  fighters, but most of them were this not because of a good training (like f.e. the paratroups) but because of there fanatical mind and ofcourse because of their equipment that was allways the best. If i remember right i read that if there were supplies available the first to get them was the waffen SS. many  of this units (not all) were guilty for committing warcrimes. but in one thing nonoht is wrong: they were not all volunteers, to the end of the war they were recruited like the soldiers of the wehrmacht, because they have to keep the numbers up, and this was not longer possible with volunteers.
as far as to the squad name "waffen SS":
i dont like it, and as soon as i have the feeling that there will be rassism in this game (or in WWII online later) and HTC don´t react to it i will be out. But right now i think (at least i hope) these are some young guys who don´t have the knowledge, they only like the name because it was feared.
cya
ibreh

[jarbo]

For what its worth,
I am against exercising limitations to what people can call a squad.  If the name is offensive, they will be ostracized and hopefully will change it or leave.  If they begin verbally attacking people in the community, thats completly different and actions should be taken against the individual.      

My 2cents,
Jarbo


[This message has been edited by jarbo (edited 07-03-2000).]

[Azrael]

While the Squad name may not be offensive to Americans (and AH is a american game), it is offensive to others. Myself included.

Az

[metronom]

I make it quick
I disgust the SS. Its make no difference is it the Waffen SS or the "normal" SS. They where all killers. Remember Warsaw ghetto. They are the shame on the German people. To make them equal to the Vikings is not right. In the time of the Vikings there was almost no kind of Civilisation in Europe. On the same you could spit on the Crusaders, who organised the greatest massacre of Civilians during the siege and capture of Jerusalem.
And another thing, SS didn't have any Airforce. For that was the Luftwaffe up.
So if you let that such names apeare in the AH, tomorow they will march through the Streets again.

[Kats]

The only solution I can see is to make a list  of units during ww2 that committed horrendus acts and ban the names. That should include Russian, German, Japanese, US, British and any other country involved. We can make a web site and document the atrocities.

Or we can forget about the whole thing and file it under "it's only a game". To pick on just German units is a diservice to history and to those who suffered at the hand of evil - evil has no borders.

Either way I'll be happy.

[HABICHT]

as a german i must say, i was shocked when
i saw this squad name.
when i'll meet someone of this squad, i'll
hunt him down, even when i have to fly a pony
for this hunt.
shame on this guy, knowing nothing from history.
these squad or unit names may be the reason
why i'll NEVER join WWIIOL when out.

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"Die Ta 152 war meine Überlebensversicherung in den letzten Tagen des Krieges" OFw Willi Reschke, Ritterkreuzträger, 38 Abschüsse

[DrSoya]

The way this Zemke character acts and talks, he's probably a teen (or young adult), maybe on a 2-week free trial account.

Would such a character want to create a true historical squadron for the values it lived by? I strongly doubt. (Someone mentioned he used the name 56th FG for a while, when there already was one around?) The name was rather chosen for its image.

I don't think we're looking at this from the right perspective.

This is rather an act from an immature mind.

In fact, I've been playing for only 3 weeks, but I find disquieting to see behavior that you see in Quake games (I know from experience). Strong language, disrespect for others, childish reactions to losing, unwarranted agressivity. I.e. immature behavior.

I'm not saying I'm seeing a lot of it, but just enough to get uncomfortable.

This totally free and ridiculously easily accessible two-weeks free trial bothers me a lot, because it means we get young Quakeheads who have no respect for others, and won't abide by common sense and decency.

I never made much use of the .ignore command in WB, but I think I'll have to use .squelch pretty regularly in AH.

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't want to see youngsters in AH. I had/have young squaddies, and they're both class acts (<S> Rendar/Ruskis and Gallan!) Heck, I'm only 32, I still feel young.

But when I fly, it's for fun, for comradeship, and I expect adult behavior from my opponents, and mutual respect. We unfortunately can't expect that from most Quakeheads.

I'd really like a .squelch file that automatically loads on entering the arena, please.

Say, I'm looking at the Squad roster, and the Waffen SS disappeared. No squad with Zemke as CO anymore...

Good.

IMHO there is a limit to what "free speech" should mean.

One's freedom of speech ends where one's neighbor's rights begin.


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DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF [AH]
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF [WB]
Part of the Northolt Wing (First Polish Fighter Wing)

[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 07-03-2000).]

[crabofix]

Gentlemen.
I am sorry for putting in my "small" thoughts about the name of the certain squad "waffen ss".
I also reacted strongly when I first saw the name pop up after a "kill".

But after thinking more about it and about the very elitegroup the waffen ss was during the wwII, I reconsidered, even if it was with mixed emotions.

Yes, SS means the dirtiest scoundrels that ever walked the earth. Volunteers for their beleifs in the nationalsocialistic doctrine.

After reading, some of the replies to this thread and thinking a little more about it, I strongly apose any  politicalnames of any kind, being used as part of a squadname.
(This means also the word "soviet" etc etc..)

Crabofix

[Suave1]

Look, I don't like the guys choice of such a blatantly racist and inhumane unit to name his squad after either. He obviously did it as an antagonistic means of getting attention, or maybe he's a nutjob bigot or something. It doesnt' matter . People lets not be nazis about this, I believe in everyones' right to free speech no matter how wrong they are . It is fascist to censor words, even if those words reflect fascist ideals .

[Lampo]

hey hey
in this moment a squad does not exist in arena that it is called waffen ss .

lampo


------------------
Primo Gruppo Caccia
-=Asso Di Bastoni=-

[Creamo]

Plus, there already is a squad named,
 
no squad because Pyro made him change i
Squad CO:
 Axiom
 
 

[Downtown]

This is an extension of the swastika argument.

I have read a little history, and had some discussions on the WWIIOnline UBBs concerning the Swastika and the SS Units.

I can apprieciate the offense taken by the individuals who lost family at Tulle or Orandour/Glane.

In my opinion, it is important to discuss the Swastika and the SS Units.  By sharing the information about NAZISM, Racism, and what these units did we can all learn something.

I find Warmutts and St. Santa's post particularly enlightening.

I reserver the right to take offense at the Swastika and those units that choose to use SS identifiers.  I am not prepared to sweep them under the rug, hoping they go away.

Read and Learn people, read and learn, and apply your knowledge.  The SS were not the good guys, anyone who joins a unit using a SS unit identifier should be ready to accept an amount of derision.  I only hope they can bear it like Jackie Robinson who was the first African American Baseball player, and a classy dude.

As to all the folks offended by the SS unit designations, learn to fly better, learn where the SS flyers are, shoot them down, unmercilessly.

Those who do not remember the past are condemnd to repeat it!

Remember the Swastika and the SS units and what they did, share that information, don't hide it hoping it will go away.

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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!