Author Topic: F4U-1D vs Spit/N1k ... does the corsair ever stand a chance? (Read 1479 times)

Widewing · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:31:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tub-o-lard
Widewing, I understand why you put the -C first, given how much you stress shooting ability, then the -4 second is an obvious choice, but why did you put the F4U-1 ahead of the F4U-1D?

Mickey ... you're welcome

I prefer the F4U-1 over the F4U-1D because it's lighter, and consequently a bit more agile. In addition, it's faster at all altitudes. In turn, I live with the cockpit frame rails. For jabo work where the threat from enemy aircraft is minimal, I'd take the 1-D due to the fact that it can carry more than twice the iron load of the -1. If I expect heavy opposition at the target area, I'll take the -1 or the C-Hog. If killing GVs or vulching, the C-Hog gets the nod every time. I would hesitate to expose an expensive F4U-4 to GV pounding. Risks are too high vs the rewards.

My regards,

Widewing

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:45:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
* Now, the Spit9 has turned right after the HO merge quickly. With that move, he lost a lot of speed. He has to build up his speed again, and that takes time.

Kweassa, actually, the effect is just the opposite. After the 180 degree turn the spit may be even faster and at your six. There is a wide range of speeds where the Spit can turn on a dime while not loosing a single knot, if you add a bit of nose down attitude, the final result is a 180 dgree turn and an increase in speed. Seen from your 190A5, the turn of the spit may seem brutal, but seen from the spit cockpit, it is simply a very smooth turn at corner speed or even above corner with no E loose and some speed gain. Your 190A5 will get some separation, but has lost totally the offensive possition and sooner or later will need to dive away or start scissoring in desperation.

Lephturn · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:51:21 AM »

I find the -1 and -1D very very close in speed. Take a look at the charts HTC has up here:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/models.html

However, although the speeds aver very close, the -1D climbs much better than the -1. This is important for me in an E fighter, and combined with the better visibility I prefer it over the -1 depending on the situation. If I'm doing point defense type stuff where I may be at a disadvantage, I'll often choose the -1 instead, hopeing it's better maneuverability will keep me alive. If I'm going to have time to get to altitude and really work the BnZ and E fight, I'll take the -1D for it's better climb rate.

Widewing · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2002, 09:37:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lephturn
I find the -1 and -1D very very close in speed. Take a look at the charts HTC has up here:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/models.html

However, although the speeds aver very close, the -1D climbs much better than the -1. This is important for me in an E fighter, and combined with the better visibility I prefer it over the -1 depending on the situation. If I'm doing point defense type stuff where I may be at a disadvantage, I'll often choose the -1 instead, hopeing it's better maneuverability will keep me alive. If I'm going to have time to get to altitude and really work the BnZ and E fight, I'll take the -1D for it's better climb rate.

If you overlay those charts Leph, you'll see that the F4U-1 has a 10 mph speed advantage at all altitudes. Not huge, but important.

My best,

Widewing

Tub-o-lard · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2002, 07:15:40 PM »

Sorry to continually burden you all with my newbieness, but if the -1C is the most lethal version, then why does the -4 cost 10 times as many perks?

Steven · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2002, 09:39:51 PM »

I don't pay attention to the charts as posted, but the F4U-1 feels very slow to me and I always had it in my head it was much slower than the F4U-1D. Are you sure it's faster than the -1D? One thing I'm certain about is that the -1 is about the slowest climbing fighters in the game. How does the -1 rate in comparison to the -1D in terms of acceleration?

SpinDoc1 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2002, 12:41:17 AM »

The F4U-4 costs a lot of perks because it excels at altitude. As one of the best F4 models in WWII, it continues that legacy in here. Same reason why a Tempest is perked... ability to beat all comers. Restrictions come with every aircraft though. The Tempest is great up until about 22-24k. Above that is doesn't do so hot. The F4U-4 is great above 25k. My personal choice for a plane above 25k is the P47-D30. Above 30k, the P38 rules (while most think it's terrible in here, it's good at altitude, most people are not patient enough to go that high though). The truth is that most fights in WWII were fought above the 20k level. In AH, we get the Counterstrike-esque attitude that we need to look for the quickest fight and start shooting. Be patient take some planes to altitude and decide for yourself which ones you would fly. Good luck!

Check out this post...

www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=47121&referrerid=3559

F4UDOA · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2002, 11:32:06 AM »

Heya's,

A couple of things about the F4U-1 and F4U-1D.

The F4U-1 IRL had wing fuel tanks. They carried about 700LBS of fuel when full. What this means in AH is the you should never carry more than 75% fuel on takeoff unless you are planning to fly accross the map and back.

In the F4U-1 75% fuel is the same as 110% fuel in the -1D. 50% fuel is more than 75% fuel in the -1D. So if you are taking off and expect to see combat right away you should never take more than 50% fuel or you will wallow like a pig. With 25% fuel you can surprise the hell out of NIK2's and even Spit's for a couple of turns. But don't get below 175MPH or you will get burned.

The F4U-1D has the unique problem of being modeled with two underwing pylons that have some drag effects. That's why it is slower than the -1. The P-47 series also had these pylons although they are not built into the FM when not carrying ordinace otherwise the top speed of the F4U-1D would be 10MPH faster on the deck and through out the speed range.

Later Y'all

Lephturn · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2002, 02:27:20 PM »

Good stuff guys, lots of valuable information here.

AFAIK, the F4U-1 should accellerate more slowly than the F4U-1D since that is directly related to climb. I am guessing that is related to the prop installed on the two models... or am I out to lunch? Is there a different engine in these two birds, or is my guest correct?

F4UDOA · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2002, 02:51:43 PM »

Heya Lephturn,

Your correct on both accounts.

It like the P-47 received a paddle blade prop some time around 1944 and the -1D also had more HP. 2250 as apposed to 2135 in the -1A.

BTW, check my post in A/C and Vehicles on Weight wingArea and Power.

Tub-o-lard · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2002, 06:34:59 PM »

Last night I ended up 1 vs 1 with a Spit (9 I think), I was in a F4U-1D, and I won!!

It was almost an exact copy of Kweassa's description above ... an extension to about 4 (miles?), a low g immelman to point at the spit. He obligingly climbed towards me I gave him a quick spray at a distance of about 1k to make him think I was going HO then pulled up again, this time to a tight loop. As I came over the top he was direcly beneath me wallowing around, it was a piece of cake to dive on him, and turn he made I could counter easily with roll. I hit him in one pass and he went down .. you have no idea how good I felt afterwards! Thanks for all the help so far

Now that I have realised that I can get away from Spit's and N1K's if I need to, I have to work out what to do about those damned F6Fs and P-51s. Any advice there?

Blue Mako · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2002, 07:22:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tub-o-lard
Now that I have realised that I can get away from Spit's and N1K's if I need to, I have to work out what to do about those damned F6Fs and P-51s. Any advice there?

F6's you can ignore, they are too slow to bother you. If you are fighting a P51, time to pray!

Tub-o-lard · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2002, 07:29:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA
The F4U-1D has the unique problem of being modeled with two underwing pylons that have some drag effects. That's why it is slower than the -1. The P-47 series also had these pylons although they are not built into the FM when not carrying ordinace otherwise the top speed of the F4U-1D would be 10MPH faster on the deck and through out the speed range.

Does this mean that in the -1D you get drag from these pylons even if you choose not to take external stores?

Kweassa · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2002, 02:04:18 AM »

I'm glad it helped, Tub

Lephturn · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2002, 08:36:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tub-o-lard
Now that I have realised that I can get away from Spit's and N1K's if I need to, I have to work out what to do about those damned F6Fs and P-51s. Any advice there?

Yep, DO NOT try to dive away. Both will catch you in a dive, the F6F will catch you early in the dive, and the P-51 later in the dive. However, both dive pretty well and are fast enough when they dive to give you fits. Don't play that game. I can tell you that the one thing I LOVE to see when flying the Hellcat is anybody in a "faster" plane trying to dive away from me. Beware the F6F, because it is a very good E fighter as well and it will turn better than your Corsair in sustained turning fights. However, you can easily out-run the Hellcat in level flight or a very shallow dive. You can extend and use similar techniques to the Spit once you have a comfortable E advantage. Versus the P-51 you are fighting one of the best E fighters in the game and it's also very fast, so you can't use the extend for E advantage technique. Your best bet vs. the Pony is to have an E advantage and use it. If you don't have an E advantage, you will be the angles fighter, so use angles fighting techniques (lead turns and such) versus the Pony and go for a quick kill. The Hog handles pretty damn well, and I think between it and the Pony it's going to come down to pilot skill if the starting E states are pretty close.

If you are losing the fight for whatever reason, try to time an extension move just right and 0 G dive towards friendlies. You'll accellerate faster in the dive, so is you time it right you can get some separation and make a break for it. The Pony will catch you, but if you got enough separation to begin with, you may get to help before he catches you. Depending on the terrain you can sometimes also dive to the dirt and possibly have him lose sight since your icon range is only 3.0k when you are very close to the ground. I like to do this in my Jug, using hills and valleys to reverse while my opponent can't see me hoping to surprise him and either shoot him in the face or get a decent angles advantage.

Your other option if you are at a disadvantage is to go for an overshoot. Standard techniques apply, and again I think it will probably come down to pilot skill.