AVI hell...comon you pro's help us dweebs out

[hazed-]

OK heres my current problems:


I have a 4.96MB AH film file of the sicily scenario with 2 kills and a couple of other moment where i hit planes and like sanchos movie i wanted to edit the film with just the good bits and then splice them to gether into 1 movie.

I had made AVI's using DivX5 of each of the segments :

sicilyI (1.27MB) (13 seconds)
sicilyII (6.26MB) (1 Minute10 seconds)
sicilyIII (3.75MB) (36 seconds)
sicilyIV (4.79MB) (33 seconds)

each were pretty simple padlock shots.

now as you can see the size after compression doesnt relate to the length of the clips much and im assuming its because the last 2 clips were over a more detailed landscape and therefore more data to compress?

now ive never spliced films together but i found 'AVIedit' which allows me to do this however:

i 'amended'(aviedit's tool) sicilyI and sicilyII together and it again asked for a codec so i chose divx5 and i promptly got blue screened.I assumed this meant that I'd tried to compress the already compressed two files?
I retried and when asked for codec i chose uncompressed.

it worked and the two films played back to back fine but also appeared slightly blockier.(pretty ugly looking)

THEN i checked the size of what i thought would be 1.26MB+6.42MB but it was 486MB!!!!! lol

then i thought maybe i have to splice uncompressed films together FIRST and then compress the whole 4 clips in divX5.

so redid the first 2 clips in AHfilm editor using uncompressed and got these AVI's:

sicilyI (80.8MB) (11 seconds)
sicilyII (483MB) (1:06 mins)

then i 'appended' them together using AVIedit and chose divx5 codec and bam! bluescreened.

I can only assume aviedit isnt compatable with dixX5.

so you can see the problem.Even using divx5 my ahfilm AVI's are seemingly over large?.I cannot splice together my films made with Divx5 and im back to square one.

what am i missing?
anyone out there know a good codec AND the best settings or configuration to use with it?
can you recommend a tool to edit my clips together (and thats easy to pick up? )
If possible id like to keep using DivX5 and set it up so that it does the best job it can for AH films(i wont be using it for anything else anyhow).I cant figure out most of the advanced settings options as half the stuff it refers to I have no reference to ( or previous knowledge of).
ie variable bitrates,max/min quantizer,RC averaging period,data partitioning packet sizes! lol the list is endless!
 
could anyone out there help us all and put up a laymens guide to this sort of stuff?

things like Data partitioning: effect...what happens when its value is increased/decreased etc?
or point us in the direction of a good help website?

I must admit i am learning a lot but I tend to be learning everything I dont yet need as well as the usefull info.
a guide or helpfull webpage for beginners would be a godsend.
plus then maybe more will try the new editor.

I think it would be great if HTC helped us a bit with the editor too because as the editor stands its pretty much for those that already know all about making AVI's.
Think of all the customers who really havent benefitted from the release of the editor.Dont they deserve a little help getting to grips with it? I guess it all comes down to time for HTC and i can understand they are too busy for this sort of thing but after all we all pay the subscription and everything released for the game is for everyone to use right?.

thanks in advance for anyone who helps.



btw heres a usefull website ive found for some software to try out.its all free or shareware or trial stuff so its a good place to start if you want to try out editing etc.

http://www.theallwoods.net/studio/tools.htm

[hitech]

None of us here have any experiance making avi's the tools or the codecs available.

[mason22]

hey hazed, i think we might try looking into some multimedia forums somewhere.


If at all possible, try and get a copy of Adobe Premier, (make sure you delete it if it's a pirate copy after you are done with it    ).

It's a very powerful multi-media platform.


I'll try and post some good info places if i find any. I think this is going to be something left up to us, and HT will be using us as "consultants" as he fiddles with his new toy   . (thanks HT!)

[AKIron]

Not sure I understand your problem hazed but if you have uncompressed avi's try this.

Open one in VirtualDub then append to avi with other(s). It will string 'em together if they have same compression format or no compression.

If you originally made them using different codecs then you can convert them all to the same by opening them, setting codec, and saving. Recompressing does seem to reduce quality however. Best to start with uncompressed files.

Step by step in VirtualDub: (assumes all files used same or no codec)

1. Download, install and run VirtualDub
2. File->Open Video File->(make selection)
3. File->Append Video Segment->(choose #2 in sequence, repeat for as many as you want to add)
4. Video->Compression->Divx (or whatever codec you want)
5. File->Save As AVI->Filename (use anyname except that of currently open files)

That's it.

[weazel]

I capture at 640x480 30 fps using the Huffyuv v2.1.1 codec, your avi output file will be smaller than using uncompressed rgb and the film editor runs faster while the quality remains high.

Use VirtualDub to make clips from the editors avi, then use save as a segmented avi in combination with Job Control to queue the segments for  processing when you have the film ready for production.

By doing it this way you prepare your film for final production and can use DivX to compress it to a managble size for distribution.

You only compress 1 time and avoid loss of quality.

If you use the right combination of filters you can set the data rate to 768 kbs for smaller files without a lot of artifacts, I'll post some of my saved VDub filter combinations later if you like.

[Wotan]

please do weazel I downloaded a bunch of filters and am slowly weeding through them. Finding the right combos is what slowing me down.

So far the only thing i use the ah film viewer for is to covert ahf to avi uncompressed.

VirtualDub is far superior in any of the other aspects of the ahfilm viewer.

I wish there was a filter for Virtualdub that would give it the "aged projector" look with the lines etc...... I have found one though.........

[hazed-]

thanks guys thats helpfull

you still lost me a bit there with a few of those terms again heheh but i think i get what you mean.in relation to your answers here are some questions:

#1 if i save my clips from AHfilm uncompressed, is this THE best quality any AVI can get?

#2 Assuming uncompressed is the best quality, is it best to string(append?) them together uncompressed until you have the complete film you want, and THEN compress with a codec (ie divx5)

#3 what is the first thing you guys do when film is too big? do you recompress the original uncompressed AVI but use a lower(or higher?) bitrate? do you type in the size you want it and accept the poorer quality it produces?
(again im trying to get an idea of what you guys go for first im not really sure what the bitrate does but i assume lower bitrate lower quality[ie blockier picture]?)

#4 I love the old look to grey scale movies.Does this effect also save on avi size?

and on non related:

 where can i upload some films of say >100MB so that others can download them?


I managed to piece together my 4 divx5 clips(mentioned above) using a program called videomach ( http://www.gromada.com )
and it put all 4 together into a film size of 65MB.Not bad for a first attempt and there were a few blocky moments but mostly acceptable.I will try to do the process again only this time using uncompressed avi's until i have a final film.
Im not sure but I think this program uses its own codec or format ((cvid) Cinepak Codec by Radius) to make the full movie and i think it uses interleave which i assume reduces the quality(?)
I will then take this finished uncompressed film and compress using divx5 to see the results.

Ill probably use Bink to do this final compression but im just guessing here I have so many programmes now i cant remember which does which lol!

Ill download Virtualdub and take a look as i see its more poular on these boards and so ill have an easier time learning it i guess.

again thanks and id appreciate you guys letting me know if im going about this right?

My aim btw is to produce a film similar in length and content to Sanchos great movie here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49472

[AKIron]

hazed, concerning quality, an uncompressed avi is the closest you can come to the original film. Is it the best? Probably. Prohibitively large? Definitely.

Concerning whether it is best to piece together compressed or uncompressed avi's. I think it is best to load 'em all up uncompressed and then compress 'em when saving them together.

Here's my reason: Say you compress each one individually, you then load 'em all up and save together. You might think that you can now save as uncompressed since they were already compressed to begin with, not true. If you do that the file will be very large. Ok, so you choose Divx as your codec, well additional processing is now done to the already compressed files resulting in quality degredation. Therefore, I think it's best to go with uncompressed.

[hazed-]

thanks AKiron thats all i needed  

as it takes a lot of time to capture these small moments i didnt want to be doing stuff that may not be necessary.

now my minds at rest on how to go about it i can concentrate more on better quality camera use instead of making quick amaturish films for testing purposes

[Starbird]

Use uncompressed as much as possible when editing.

The reson you want to work with uncompressed footage is beacuse when you work with compressed video, every change you make to the files will uncompress/recompress them. Everytime you recompress, you'll loose quality.

Usually if I'm going to work on compsiting a few scenes, I'll save the avi as individual tiffs, you can string them back together when you do the final render.

Once you have your video edited, with all the effects and such, then you can render it to whatever compressor you want.

This all takes a lot of storage space, and some fast drives, but the results are worth it.

[weazel]

You will need the smart resizer, coring, unsharp mask, xsharpen, warp sharp, grayscale, levels, and the shadow smoother filters for VirtualDub to use this file.

Make a settings folder in the VDub directory, unzip my file into it then use the Load Processing Settings command in the menu, you will need to change the codec in the menu if you don't have DivX 4.02 as this file will look for it when you begin to process your video.

The Huffyuv gif was captured from VirtualDub using uncompressed RGB at its original resolution of 640x480 and only the VDub grayscale filter, the divx gif was captured using the filters above at 320x240 resolution and DivX 4.02 at 768 kbs data rate.

I resized it with Irfanview for comparison at the same resolution. The huffyuv gif is 27 kb larger than the divx, a five minute avi has around 5,000 frames for a difference of 132 mb file size between the compression each codec acheives, the original uncompressed rgb avi was almost 1 GB in size.

Sorry about using Tripod for the images, hope you guys can see them.


Huffyuv 640x480


Divx 320x240

Hazed take time to read VirtualDubs help files, once you figure it out avi production is a snap.

[weazel]

DivX 5 codec has been nothing but a headache on my system, most VDub gurus swear by the 3.12 alpha codec but IMO it's less stable than the 4.02 version and the quality difference is negligible.  

Here is a link for DivX 4.12

When you open VDub the version number will be 4.02.

[hazed-]

weazel thanks for help mate but youre way ahead of me...

coring? xsharp? unsharp mask? i dont know what these or most of the other stuff are .

much like all other computer terms we need breif explanations of what you mean or we have no context with which to understand them...

eg...... greyscale (makes colours black and white), hehe see i got that one

if you stick explanation next to them i dont have to chase up the info in help files.Saves all us newbies loads of time and helps us learn much more quickly.

unfortunately the links dont work for me, they come up blank

you also say that i'll need those filters but what for?
xsharp maybe sharpens images? im guessing it cuts out sharp blocky edges?

do filters help reduce the compression size or help clean up images? does this mean using some good filters allows for a lower resolution compression with little loss to image quality?
this is in reference to my #3 question?

btw thanks, im looking into filters now

[weazel]

The vcf file I posted will load the filters and settings w/o you having to configure them.

You will probably need to adjust the WDM capture driver settings a bit but thats no big deal. (contrast, hue, brightness, etc)

[hazed-]

thanx weazel for email. I cant get that file though mate.is it a join only site? do i have to join to download off it? Id rather not use them as those things tend to spam me with mail.

is it ok for that sort of thing?

if not maybe send me it by email as an attachment?

remember im total newbie to this though so maybe some instructions would be prudent
i think you have to put them in that readme file in virtualdub for them to be added right?

btw as i said in mail :

i took all clips again uncompressed
used virtualdub to append them together uncompressed (769MB 2:20 Mins)
used Bink to compress with greyscale to .bik (binks own format) (28.6MB!!)
used bink again to convert to AVI using DivX4.12 (12.3MB!!! wow weazel when i emailed i didnt realise it had got this small)

and viola  pretty good quality and extremely small compared to what i had before!!

now all i need is to post it! how do i do that?