I have to say it.........

[hazed-]

Im becoming a little discouraged by the MA type attitude to fighting im seeing more and more of in the CT of late.

A lack of interest in any organisation or missions etc.
Same kill no matter what attitude
Not allowing players the chance to launch even when no capture is in progress
Even kill stealing on occation
Players with warpy connects continueing to fly without relogging.
MILKRUNNING!
etc etc

People! why are we building this CT?

Wasnt this supposed to be the place where we see more realistic stuff? but with concessions to the low numbers we see in there?
Squadron flying and tactics? Large bomber formations making the attack clear rather than solo milkrun behaviour in order to allow the few enemy on to have a chance of attack?
allowing a severly damaged aircraft to ditch rather than totally destroy them as they scrape to a stop? do we want to piss off the few people we have in the CT?
NO vulching just for kills!!!but for a capture only?
no gangbanging?

I really thought i was going to see more cooperation or at least small groups flying together.Some people in the CT try to consider it a one life event like a scenario and to be vutched or shot whilst ditching is a real spoiler for their chosen style of play.
Honestly if you want to kill everything no matter what, what the hells wrong with the MA?
I think last night in particular made me feel the CT is never going to be the 'different' type of arena it promised to be.there were whole squads doing milkruns where there were no players!.Its drifting quickly away from the historic arena into another mindless base swapping checkers game and i think my interest will soon go at this rate.
I can only hope that new maps like the tunisia map make for so much fun as to make the behaviour irrelevant.

I'll continue to try to play with a little bit of consideration for others and attempt to organise missions but im a lot less enthusiastic after what i saw in the CT yesterday.


I must say i also feel sabre that your setup is encouraging this gangbang mentality due to the fact that IJN forward bases have 1 or two aircraft of limited ability facing a CV fleet (or two ) with a wide choice of aircraft flying off them.
If this is indeed trying to be closer to an historical setup I have a suggestion i think might ease this.

Make an idividual Fleet use an individual plane type.One CV for bombers like the TBM and another for F6F's and another for F4us.
And if you are going to put in aircraft like the F6f and F4uds and P38s then you are going to HAVE to allow the IJN NIKjs from many ore bases.Make them high perk costs to control overuse rather than limiting them to fields far from most of the action.

Another problem is the fact that the IJN have no way to destroy the Carrier other than masses of seperate attacks or a mission filled with pilots which as i have said above just isnt happening in the CT. The ki67 has to fly below 200mph and below 200 feet to fire its torpedo but unlike the ju88 this is almost impossible to acheive with the same level of effort.Its damned hard and if the ships gunners fire in their general direction they are garenteed death.
So what you ask? well in order for the torpedo to reach a ship it MUST be dropped inside the light ack range at a slow and steady 200 mph.Who couldnt hit an aircraft flying this way?
So level bomb it you say? thats level bomb it with a minimum of 8 ki67s???
theres barely 8 people who would fly the ki67 let alone together.
dive bomb it? well this is probably the only way it can be done but again requires the player to basically suicide into the carrier. Encouraging that same MA behaviour i came into the CT to avoid!!

I dont really know what the answer is but after playing as the allies and trying to have some good tangles in dogfights and realising its best to BnZ only (unless in F6f) and then finding it rather easy to kill or run I changed back to IJN (even though frustration almost caused me to quit the CT altogether last time i flew as them) to see it fro the other side again.
two words sums it up for me and thats 'frustration' and 'unfair'.

I know the real US armies and navies had a huge advantage towards the end of the real war but you cant expect players to suffer the same lack of machines as the real japanese did and actually enjoy themselves.
We need to make it a little more 'what if' on the tactical side whilst trying to maintain a realistic layout of tools to use.
If there was only 200 nikjs made 1000's of zeros and a good number of Ki61s but ALSO many other types we dont have in AH like ki84's /44's/43's/27's J2M's/45's/10's/Aichi D3a's/B7A's and all manner of different types they could have used for the situations like attacking fleets or defending bases THEN WE MUST allow the IJN to have competative aurcraft even if it means seeing a lot of N1K2's flying in the CT until we get a decent choice of the other types.Hell even if the ones we have 'represent' other models like you have done with the P38 or F4us in the past! wasnt there many more  N1K1's around? (1000 i think) and over 400 N1K2J's from 1943 onwards.
If the home island in this map is supposed to represent the mainland of japan dont you think they would have formidable capabilities?

I really feel it needs considering here.Personally I will try to soldier on but i really cant promise ill use the CT in such a one sided battle.Ive seen it from both sides and i am being honest here.I am not whineing for the axis, Im calling for a parity in the peices of this game.

[Wotan]

I agree hazed 100%

I have fun flying a Zeke and get a kill now and again.

Brady and I vrs Kieran and eddiek and a couple of other allieds had a good bit off fun. We lunched a few zekes at a base to get the guys up and after a bit we had some really fun fights win or lose it was S! all round. Ofcourse there was the joking and what not.

Then someone on the allied side decided to aim there fleet at ours and before you knew it there was a f4 hoin and runnin to ack.

They began shelling our fleet which I wouldn't have cared about  but it was a sector and a half to the next closest field. There were only 3 axis that I saw.

After getting nailed by 5 inch at 2 k in a turn fight with the f4 ho ack runner I logged. I dont wanna fly 35 miles in a zeke to find a fight and then to have the guy ack hug. I guess I coulda been a dweeb and did the same or got in the cruisers guns and sunk their fleet but that crap is no fun to me.  I just wanna up fight till I die and start over.

I would love it if kill messages were turned off and if there was no base capture and no score. But I am the by far minority. This is the very reason pac set ups suk. Theres always much more bs going on in these set ups compared to any other.

Its a matter of parity. By that I mean ijn/a has no jabo and no way to counter milkrunning cv parking or land grabs in general with out 10 plus folks working together.

I really did have a fun time yesterday S! to the folks who were there. When the early pac war planes come I can see the potential for some awesome setups. I never cared for pac stuff at all. But my interest is growing and I am eagerly waiting till the day when I up an early Zeke or val off midway.

[Jaekart]

Hazed and Wotan.

  I feel the same as both of you do, even tho for My Squad, we live and dream of the PTO set ups.  As a Naval Unit, any time we can get Cv's, that is what we do.  All of Us in the VF-27 comment and send suggestions concerning the IJ Naval and Army birds, Because We want Decent fights and fun times when We come into the CT for our Squad times.  Milkrunning is something We avoid, as a unit.  As far as parking our CV's off an enemy base, Most of us will do our best to move them back to  the Open Sea where they Belong.  As far as hugging the Ack, I admit it happens, by both sides.  Last night (saturday) I had just upped off a CV, and had a NiK above in the Ack, so I climbed and did my best to engage.  It turned out to be Hazed in the niki, and I aplogize now if you think I was huggin the ack.  The truth is, I was concentratin so Hard on keeping your position in My SA that I didn't pay any attention to the fact that we were fighting inside the ack envelope.

    One solution that is feasable to me is to make the ack deadly to ALL.  That should be a simple thing for the CM's to set, although as I am not a CM, I can be totally wrong on that thought.  I did like a previous set up, the Sicily I beleive, where the CV Groups were separate from the Cruiser Battle Groups.  So far as I could tell, that stopped the CV parking off an airfield.  That and having a LONG respawn time for CV's that got sunk.

  As a Squadron doing Strat Missions on our Squad Nights, we always fly High, so Bar-Dar can paint us.  We want the Enemy to find us.  We want our Missions to be Contested, so that if successful, we have a sense of accomplishment as a group.  And if the Enemy is better than we are, then to them.  If they beat us, they at least know they had a fight.

 I totally agree with the point that some parity needs to be reached, for an Allies vs Axis set up.  An Early war plane set is a much desired and requested thing, by all players, as seen on this BB.  Maybe we will get some birds eventually that will even things up.  I'm personally waiting for an F4F vs A6M2, and a Bunch of our Squad want to see the P-40 brought in.  Flying Tigers over Burma, lol.  I really do hope to see the CT Thrive and Grow, as I don't like or fly the MA.   I get absolutely no enjoyment from an endless furball gangbang.  I want My Game time to have a purpose, else I see no need to pursue it.  I get that here in the Ct, win or lose, because I know that I will find a target that is being contested.  

[brady]

Hazed in response:


 " A lack of interest in any organisation or missions etc."

   Well i realy think it depends on the time, I have joined mishion with you on several ocations where quiet a few people were involved, I think that if we have a dozen or so people on and they are defending a base and you post a mishion they may be ocupied you know what I mean:) In general people like your mishions I know I do, I also know I am not always available to join them, nontheless your effort is appricated.

 "Same kill no matter what attitude"

 I am not shure what this means...

  "Not allowing players the chance to launch even when no capture is in progress"

 I think that to expect people to allow players to up when they can prevent this is unrealistic, Granted their are exceptions, their should be. The game should be more than kill or be killed, I think the generaly friendly chat on the message buffer is evedence of that, people have time in the CT to say more often than not compared to the MA.Personaly I expect no quarter to be given me never, howeaver I will on ocation extend it, you don't give a gift with intention of expecting one back.


"Even kill stealing on occation"

  This could be as much a fault of lag as anything else or a SA problem, Personaly I figure that unless I finish my kill sombody else will, but to say that they intenionaly stole it is difucult to prove.


 "Players with warpy connects continueing to fly without relogging"

 Well....that suck's huh:)


MILKRUNNING!

 It hapens, Personaly I play AH to take bases and like to fight my way to and  from them, The primary catalist for fighting in AH is the base capture aspect, it brings us together:) Howeaver when atacking a base somtimes nobody contests it, I realy dont see anymore how we can say somone is milkruning if their is an enemy in country, the enemy, if they are present, are alowing their foe to atack a base uncontested.

 The map we are curentaly using has a very wide front for CT use in fact it is almost to big, but we (CT stafers) have a limited number of maps at hand. The situation is improving howeaver, we have some very nice maps coming, Tunisia is taylor made for CT use.Also NUTTZ is working on the Kuriels wich should give us a very nice map indead.

 The lack of SB's on the curent map (except on the main islands) does impact game play for both sides, howeaver the alies can sink a CV in 4 sorties as aposed to the eight that the Japanese have to launch.

 Personaly I realy enjoy flying the Japanese planes we have they are almost without exception a pure joy to fly as apposed to those alied planes that well...

  Wotan and I didhave a blast in those fights off 28 yesterday, I dare say we faired beter than they did:)

  I do hope we see more Japanese planes added in the future (Italian,and Russian to:),) I suspect we will:)

[hazed-]

brady just to clear things ..i dont consider an openly visible attack on a base a milk run.Milkrun is when players sneak in with no dar contact or like i saw yesterday southern end of the map around a35 shelling the town from a cv without upping any planes until it was open for an LVT.

I happened quite by accident to up in a Ki67 and was testing speeds to drop torpedos. I saw the fleet and thought it was a stray rook fleet and when it fired at me i thought ahh rooks still fire so it would make a perfect practice target.but no, i was annihilated as i approached by fleet auto-simple-to-fire-flak and called it out on radio that they were bishops!
as i took off for my second attampt pow A35 was lost.they were obviously mid capture when i arrived.

This sort of thing i detest. Why dont they play offline? its the same thing.

as for vulching, like i said i wont vulch players if they are just upping to fight and im not part of a capture attempt.If it is capture ill kill anything that walks crawls or breathes

[eskimo2]

Hazed,
My squad, The Buccaneers, and I were part of the attacks and captures of A-45 and A-28.

We died.
We Furballed,
We gangbanged,
We worked together.
We fought high and low,
We jaboed ack and strat stuff down,
We beat the fight down and we vulched,
We closed bunches of hangers.
We sunk your CV and fleet.
We captured your bases.
We were organized.
We had a mission.
We had fun.
Sorry.

(Now get over it.)

eskimo

[eskimo2]

BTW,
When the Buccaneers logged on we spent at least an hour doing formation and element practice as well as carrier quals.  We did this for fun and as a warm-up 100 miles away from the nearest enemy or enemy base.

I looked at the roster as we lined up for our first take off.
17 to 17, but 10 of us allies were not a factor.  So the Japanese enjoyed a 17 to 7 superiority for awhile.  I didn't hear any complaining then.

eskimo

[brady]

LOL Hazed:)


  Well what i ment is that with the new flashing base icon and the audio warning it is generaly hard to do a milkrun, except on this map it is so large that an atack aganst a sector miles away may go unnoticed.

[Tac]

Easy answer: perk the n1k in CT, remove the spitIX, perk the spit V/seafire (seafire cheaper), leave the spit 1 unperked.

That takes care of the quake crowd.

[Karnak]

I'd love to see the Ki-44-IIb and Ki-84-Ia.

Ki-44-IIb Shoki:

Maximum Speed: 376mph.
Initial Climb: 3,940ft.
Armament: Four 12.7mm Type I, two in fuselage and two in wings, with provision for 2 100kg bombs.
Total Built: 1,233, all versions.

4 12.7mm machine guns is a light but usable level of firepower.

The climb and speed would make this a viable fighter against the USN and USAAF fighters that are available for the CT environment.

Ki-84-Ia Hayate:

Maximum Speed: 392mph
Initial Climb: 3,600ft.
Armament: Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon in the wings with 150 rounds each and two 12.7mm Type 103 in the fuselage with 350 rounds each, with provision for two 250kg bombs under the wings.
Total Built: 3,514, all versions.

This aircraft was the best Japanese fighter to see combat in WWII.  It was built in quantity and saw combat from the Philipines on to the end of the war.  Its speed, armament, handling and durability make it a threat to every USN and USAAF fighter that saw combat in WWII.


In the attack role the Japanese are really at a disadvantage.  The IJN and IJA simply did not see the need for heavy bomb loads and never specified them in design requirements.  The Ki-67 that we have is probably the best bomber the Japanese used and could easily have carried a much heavier load, but the IJA only asked for 800kgs and that's what Mitsubishi delivered.

Carrier strike aircraft such as the B6N2 or B7A2 would be a good thing to have though.

[Karnak]

OK, I was thinking about the Japanese lack of attack capability.  I looked over my list of bombers and seeing that even their biggest bombloads are only 1000kg I was thinking that it was pretty hopeless.

Then I remembered the H8K2 "Emily".  That can carry 4,400lbs.  While that's not particularly good, it is at least enough to do something with.  Add to that the fact that it has 5 20mm cannon as defensive fire and is one of the most durable aircraft (possibly the most) of WWII.

So, adding the Ki-44-IIb, Ki-84-Ia, B6N2 and H8K2 would give the Japanese a far, far better shot at being a playable side in AH.

[Tac]

My only issue with the CT now is the AI ack, the milkrunning BS and the uneven sides.

Logged in this afternoon, there were 15 people in CT. I said "WOOT! people in CT!"...

and I get in and see 3 axis and 12 allies.

Switched to axis.. and for the next hour nobody switched sides. Worse of all , there were 3 allies constantly milkrunning bases all over.

And THEN, when 3 more people logged in to the CT and came in as axis, it only took 20 minutes for those 12 allieds to drop to 10... then to 6... then to 4.

No more milkrunning it seems.


Then the AI ack thing. Theres nothing worse than being in a zero fighting an f6f that has 10k alt adv for about 12 minutes and then have the f6f run STRAIGHT to his ack. The funniest thing is that while I stayed with 6k alt above him and lost a lot of ground, I followed him to his field.. and this f6f circled his own ack at 7k for 3 or 4 circles, on one of them he strayed a bit away from the ack cover, I dove on him, the second he saw me coming he dove straight for his ack. I pulled up again and circled him.

Then he saw his fleet just off the field.. and guess what. He ran for the fleet. Again, I follow the loser to the fleet, he does his little circle dance twice then drops his alt to near 3k behind his fleet.. I drop mine to just above the ack fire umbrella.. and he headed straight for his carrier to land.

As he touched the deck I came in from above and blew him up.

To stop the ack-running:

I would ask CT team to disable the ack guns or change them to 30 cals. The population in CT is small enough already to have this pathetic breed of pilots run to the AI to save their asses.

To stop the milkrunning and uneven sides

Hopefully HTC can put an automatic side balancer. When one side has 1/4th more pilots than the other side, switch some people or put the newcomers to the lowest # team.

[Wotan]

exactly tac

Thats what I and a few others have been saying......

Its starts off comical then its just gets to be pure bs........

Dunno know what ya can do except just stay out of these ones......

[hazed-]

Originally posted by Tac


Logged in this afternoon, there were 15 people in CT. I said "WOOT! people in CT!"...

and I get in and see 3 axis and 12 allies.

Switched to axis.. and for the next hour nobody switched sides. Worse of all , there were 3 allies constantly milkrunning bases all over.

And THEN, when 3 more people logged in to the CT and came in as axis, it only took 20 minutes for those 12 allieds to drop to 10... then to 6... then to 4.

No more milkrunning it seems.


 

no Tac this obviously is a figment of our imagination.According to eskimo and his 'buccaneers' this sort of thing just doesnt happen

we apparently need to 'get over it'.

funny, dont see too many buccaneers on the ijn side do you?

joking aside if people choose not to admit or accept the ijn are at a disadvantage then, well , what can anyone do.
Like i said i flew on both sides and found the allies enjoyable if a little dull because you cant really dogfight in them too welland it means bnz all the time(apart from in f6fs) and the ijn side frustrating. If you dont agree eskimo id appreciate it if you actually tried flying on their side first.I checked your stats and you have flown mostly f6f and no IJN at all.No wonder you dont agree.

[daddog]

When the TOD's are not going on the Mongrels fly squad nights (Friday nights) in the CT.

Last Friday 11 of us flew Ki-61's and Ki-67's. First a high level bombing mission. 2nd a low level bombing run.  When we logged on it was about 15 IJN to about 4 American.

Not the norm, but it does happen. By the time we left it was more like 10 to 10.

The numbers on both sides is like a roller coaster. Generally the numbers are higher for Allies. No surprise there.

When we have a Frank or a Jack that might change some.  In anycase the CT is far from perfect, but beats what we had 8 months ago.

Nothing