Author Topic: William Tell Competition (Read 1062 times)

Ripsnort · « **on:** May 10, 2002, 11:30:53 AM »

Attention CM staff and Community:

VMF-323 is working on a modified concept based on the 1954 US Airforce Fighter Gunnery and Weapons Meet (William Tell Competition) but modified for NAVAL EXCERCISE.

Currently we are studying the concept of a WT Terrain complete with a large Bullseye where an enemy tank would qualify as "the bullseye" due to the problems of bomb hits, craters not showing on others FE's while in the TA. 10bears has been asked to create the terrain requirements I have asked for:

Quote

Terrain Requirment
3 CV's that surround an island( about 20 miles in diamter, no large mountains, flat terrain, Bish, Rook, Knit CV's )

One V-field smack in the middle of that island and a large red and white ringed BULLSEYE target painted on the terrain tile that is just a tad North of the V-field, 3 ring target, the center being WHITE in color.

Around this target I need 4 x 20mm AA.

This "target" would be placed within a reasonable ground vehicle travel time from V-field spawn (under 1 min travel time)

CM's would be asked to upload this into the SEA at a given date.

Here's the basic outline of the William Tell. Keep in mind this is an AIR_TO_GROUND competition. It WILL be modified and feedback is very welcome and suggested but may not necessarily be implemented.

Quote

"William Tell competition"
~Aircaft type is limited to an F4U-1D or an F6F Hellcat.

~Judges/Observers will be "The target" in the center of the bulleyes manned inside a tank.

~Judges will base their "scores" on the following:

A)Ability to take off from a CV deck.

B)Ability to hit a small target with 1 250lb bomb and not die to AA fire.(Most damage to tank or kill of. There will be a Judge in each tank sitting on bullseye)

C)Ability to hit a small target with 2 rockets and not die to AA fire.(Most damage to tank or kill of. There will be a Judge in each tank sitting on bullseye)

D)Ability to fly thru the bomber hangar on egress back to ship (Possible, not sure if we'll implement this)

F)Ability to land again without dying.

E)"Best time" will be the tie-breaker for those more experienced pilots that easily execute the above and live.

If you die, your out.

We're shooting for Late June for the beginning of the competition. Depending on the numbers of squadrons who would like to be involved will dictate the number of days this will run. I'm quite sure if we have less than 50 involved, we'll be able to do this in a 2-day, 2 hour competition.

SQUADRON CO'S OR XO'S ONLY: EMAIL ME IF YOUR SQUADRON IS INTERESTED.
ripsnort@aceshighcs.com

Yeager · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2002, 11:44:51 AM »

Excellent use of the proverbial noodle!

Ill be there hopefully. Sounds like a real blast

Ghosth · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2002, 11:58:48 AM »

WOW!

This could be VERY intersting.

Best individual & best squad times?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2002, 12:00:50 PM »

Equal squadron numbers, yes ghost..sounds good!

Kutt · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2002, 03:06:44 PM »

Maybe we could take top 8 scores of a squad. If your squad can field more members, your CO picks the best 8 scores from your squad. If you only can up 8, well you go with the 8 you brought. It doesn't have to be 8, but you get the idea.

skernsk · « **Reply #5 on:** May 12, 2002, 09:32:35 AM »

Hey Rip rather than have a tanker sitting on the target the SEA can be set up to allow use if the CM eye to anyone not in flight. That might make a better judge.

I think the terrain will need to go through HTC for blessing but it should be fine.

Aub · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2002, 10:16:03 PM »

This sounds like ALOT of fun!

Ripsnort · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2002, 08:04:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by skernsk
Hey Rip rather than have a tanker sitting on the target the SEA can be set up to allow use if the CM eye to anyone not in flight. That might make a better judge.

I think the terrain will need to go through HTC for blessing but it should be fine.

Sounds good!

I haven't heard back from 10bears, maybe Nuttz or one of the other Terrain Guru's might want to tackle this requested terrain?

Nash · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2002, 04:50:55 PM »

Sounds cool... and quite doable.

Can you fill us in on how the herding will be done? I can't imagine that everyone all heads for the target at the same time... How do ya plan to work that aspect? Is this squad based or individual?

Jaekart · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2002, 05:17:54 AM »

This sounds like something the VF-27 "Hellcats" will definately Attend and Enjoy, either as a Squad or as individuals, whichever way it gets worked up.

~~VMF-323 for a great Idea.~~

Ripsnort · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2002, 10:09:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
Sounds cool... and quite doable.

Can you fill us in on how the herding will be done? I can't imagine that everyone all heads for the target at the same time... How do ya plan to work that aspect? Is this squad based or individual?

Good question. I assume this will have to take place over a few days.

VMF-323 will be the first test. We'll be doing an inter-squad competition to test everything.

For the Masses, I'm limiting the competition to "Squadron Based Only". I will probably invite 2 squadrons at each session (I'll have 2 other judges with me) and I'm guess-timaating that it will take about 2 hours to get thru 2 squadrons (Estimate is each pair of pilots to complete their circut will be approx. 13 min) Thats about 18 pilots per 2 hours. If you have suggestions, I'm open! Actually to speed things up, I'd like to see the terrain builder have two target areas to expedite the process.

Also, there will be casualites, so guys will be dying to AA and flopping on the CV decks I imagine...the test we do in VMF-323 will tell me alot, since we'll have about 20 pilots up for this test.

I hoping to keep the flight time for each sortie low. The CV will be placed 5 miles from the Field. Three judges will be present, two of them riding as observers with the first two pilots that will launch 1 min part. One judge will be at the bulleye area in a tank or on the ground. The two "Cockpit" judges will basically just be holding a stopwatch. The Timing begins the moment ROLL is given to the pilot. A minute later another pilot will spawn. The total time of the sortie and accuracy will be noted. Those times and accuracies will be combined and placed on a spreadsheet.(Phantom4, may need your help here for stats)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2002, 06:58:33 PM »

Update:
Geez has finished terrain requirements, and we've done alittle testing, the terrain is going to be modified to add a couple more things:

4 X 20mm AA over the rocket Range to make it tougher to rocket the tank. 4 X 20mm exist on the bombing range already.

Flight time was approx. 12-15 min. round trip, thats with a climb out to 9,000 feet. We made add a mountain range on the SW part of the island to force everyone to climb to a min. alt of 8k, this will help avoid heavy losses from inexperienced flyers trying to hit target at too low of altitude.

Tanks will have to be the targets, Craters do not always show up on each persons FE, so damage done to tank will be the "Accuracy" measure. From some testing I've done, you can do minor damage like knocking out the engine to a direct kill, using a single 250 lb bomb. You can even get an engine out and a tread out, with rockets you can assess the damage from engine out to treads knocked out, to a kill. Either way, its challenging and we'll be able to measure accuracy that way.

We may use a Hangar on the egress that the pilot must fly thru on the way back to the CV..but at this point, I want more feedback if we should make it that challenging or not.

Update of William Tell Measurements:

Quote

A)Ability to take off from a CV deck.

B)Ability to hit a small target with 1 250lb bomb and not die to AA fire.(Most damage to tank or kill of. There will be a Judge in each tank sitting on bullseye)

C)Ability to hit a small target with 2 rockets and not die to AA fire.(Most damage to tank or kill of. There will be a Judge in each tank sitting on bullseye)

D)Ability to fly thru the bomber hangar on egress back to ship (Possible, not sure if we'll implement this)

E)Ability to land again without dying.

F)"Best time" will be the tie-breaker for those more experienced pilots that easily execute the above and live.

If you die, your out.

I'll keep you informed, here's a couple of snap shots:

Pics of Geez's terrain while on approach:

Bullseye!

BigMax · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2002, 04:51:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Equal squadron numbers, yes ghost..sounds good!

Or a squadron average time with penalty time... %ages would make for equivilent scoring so numbers would not necessarily be a factor.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2002, 08:41:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BigMax

Or a squadron average time with penalty time... %ages would make for equivilent scoring so numbers would not necessarily be a factor.

I'm liking this idea...you could pick out the lowest number of attending squadmates for a score, lets say its 5...then all other squadrons run the course, you pick out the best 5 scores from each squadron.

Another thought for running this thru with limited time:

A "mission" will be up in the planner. 8 flights in the mission. Each flight has 1 slot. Each flight is 2 min. apart. Squadrons join the mission. Now the judge in the CV tower has the accurate "Start" time for each pilot, and a list of pilot names. Each pilot begins the course when their flight launches. As each pilot lands, the time is recorded again. The Judges manning the two tanks can then talk to the CV tower judge on damage that each player induced on the Tank. (These "Tank target" judges up a new tank after each pilot makes his run, at 2 min apart, they'll have plenty of time to record the damage done to the tank, record it, and up a new one for the next pilot inbound)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2002, 08:45:55 AM »

If I'm doing my math correctly:

Course time approx 13 min.

8 pilots at 2 min intervals

Last pilot launches 16 min. after first pilot.

16 min. + 13 min. = 29 min. to run 8 thru the course.

I'm guessing the avg. squaddies showing up for this event would be about 10-16...so we could realistically do 2-4 squads in a 2 hour session, depending on the numbers per squad. I'm also assuming we'll only get a 4-8 squadron turnout, so 2 days of a competition (say, two saturdays in a row) should get everyone thru the course....