« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: India vs Pakistan  (Read 1065 times)

Offline ~Caligula~

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2002, 03:57:49 PM »
Just one question:
WTF was everyone doing while these people were developing their nukes?
And don`t come up with the "they have the right to have whatever they want" BS.
I have a feeling it`s only the beginning.We`ll see other moronic countries racking up nukes,and unlike the nuklear powers of the past,they won`t hesitate to use them.

All this needs to be kept in check,before it all gets out of hand.
The US is powerfull,and even if You don`t like the "cop of the world" concept,it still needs to be done for self defence reasons.
Logged

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2002, 04:47:48 PM »
"The US is powerfull,and even if You don`t like the "cop of the world" concept,it still needs to be done for self defence reasons."

Exactly their reason.

Take the US and a small and powerless country... say... Nicaragua for example.

If Nicaragua armed itself with a few dozen warheads and missiles to deliver them... it'd be on a "level" power footing with the US.

Yes, the US can blast Nicaragua into orbit.. but Nicaragua can inflict SERIOUS harm on the US if their nukes launch. And that again is the balance of power.

Nukes are like N1ks.. the great equalizers ;)
Logged

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2002, 05:16:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ~Caligula~
Just one question:
WTF was everyone doing while these people were developing their nukes?
And don`t come up with the "they have the right to have whatever they want" BS.
I have a feeling it`s only the beginning.We`ll see other moronic countries racking up nukes,and unlike the nuklear powers of the past,they won`t hesitate to use them.

All this needs to be kept in check,before it all gets out of hand.
The US is powerfull,and even if You don`t like the "cop of the world" concept,it still needs to be done for self defence reasons. [/QUOTE

Unfortunately the US didn't have the teticular fortitude to force Pakistan or India into signing or agreeing to the various Nuclear Treaties when they embarked upon their quest for nukes.  It would have meant doing what the Israelis did to Iraq when they realised that Hussein was getting close to nuclear and/or bio-chemical capability...bombing them (or maybe even threatening them with nukes).

I think the situation has changed now, though.  After 911 I think the powers that be in the US are keeping a much closer watch over the technology and materials required to construct nuclear weapons, on a global basis.  

But, they can't really undo the fact that India and Pakistan are nuclear capable at this time, especially now as the two sides waggle their nuclear sabres at each other.
Logged
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline samu1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
      • http://www.sammu01.clara.net
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2002, 07:46:57 PM »
BTW Sandman we didn't make the kashmiri mess. It was the Indian government's decision to split India (pre '47) into India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. They just didn't split it very well it seems.
Logged

Offline Otto

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1566
      • http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2002, 07:56:29 PM »
"Unfortunately the US didn't have the teticular fortitude to force Pakistan or India into signing or agreeing to the various Nuclear Treaties "

Well of course it's the fault of the United States.  That goes without saying......
Logged

Offline Saintaw

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6692
      • My blog
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2002, 11:33:06 PM »
CIA, alQuaeda ? lol Go read some newspapers dating from the beginning of the century, same content (maybe without nukes). This is nothing new, didn't even last two days on the news...
Logged
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline -tronski-

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2002, 12:01:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
CIA, alQuaeda ? lol Go read some newspapers dating from the beginning of the century, same content (maybe without nukes). This is nothing new, didn't even last two days on the news...


 Like all good wars, this ones basically based on nationalism and good old religious grounds....Hindu vs Muslim. The violence between the two faiths can make Palestine look like a McDonald's birthday party.

Kashmir has been in dispute since '47, and has been the flashpoint of 3 wars - '47-48, 1965, and a brief conflict in 1999.

As well as the rivial claims to area by the Pakis, and Indians, there are Pakistani army backed radical independance groups as well.
Musharraf was not democratically elected, so cannot control the extremist groups with an iron hand. That would create many internal problems in Pakistan, as Kashmir and the independance groups have great support amongst the people. And India  armed by the new International attitudes on terrorism, is not looking to back down. Using all too minute links to Al-Qaeda, India can sabre rattle all it wants.

Any concessions by either country is a betrayl to it's people

 Tronsky
« Last Edit: May 31, 2002, 12:04:54 AM by -tronski- »
Logged
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2002, 03:18:34 AM »
One thing is for sure; If India and Pakistan blast eachothers to smitherines with nukes, the population growth problem of the planet gets corrected temporarily.

India is one of the problem spots alongside with african countries and China.

It's weird that you americans consider Pakistan your friend. The country is harbouring international terrorism and it's not guarding it's afghan border or Indian border (hence attacks on kashmir region.)

Dealing with Pakistan was just one of the dirty little deals your government has had to make over the years for it's purposes and I'm suspecting this one will blow to your face too sooner or later. I'm pretty sure that Pakistan was a temporary solution to the afghanistan problem but is actually a problem in itself.
Logged
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Xjazz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2653
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2002, 05:33:08 AM »
"It's weird that you americans consider Pakistan your friend. "

Its wierd but we know what peoples are ready to do for the oil...
Logged

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2002, 06:35:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Otto
"Unfortunately the US didn't have the teticular fortitude to force Pakistan or India into signing or agreeing to the various Nuclear Treaties "

Well of course it's the fault of the United States.  That goes without saying......


I didn't actually mean that it was the "fault" of the US...at the time of the proposed Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaties the US was embrolied in the Cold War with the Soviets.  It would have taken an incredible amount of "testicular fortitude" to attempt to force India or Pakistan to stop development of nuclear weapons.  It could have also brought the world to the brink of nuclear war with the USSR.
Logged
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Sikboy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6702
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2002, 07:41:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xjazz
"It's weird that you americans consider Pakistan your friend. "

Its wierd but we know what peoples are ready to do for the oil...

:rolleyes:

Yeah, Pakistan is just bursting with the stuff.

US Support for Pakistan (which until the "war on terror" tm CNN all rights reserved) was suspended in an attempt to reign in the nuclear programs.. too little too late) had nothing to do with the polorized geopolitical climate of the cold war, when Pakistan was a US client state, and India was a Soviet client. Things in the world are never overdetermined. No, instead they are always explainable by washing them through a single "one size fits all" filter.

Anyhow, I hope you didn't invest in any Pakistani Oil Drilling Operations.

-Sikboy
Logged
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18116
hmm, wonder what Washington knows we don't ..
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2002, 09:38:46 AM »
Logged
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2002, 09:51:21 AM »
Quote
Dealing with Pakistan was just one of the dirty little deals your government has had to make over the years for it's purposes and I'm suspecting this one will blow to your face too sooner or later.


Dirty deals like feeding all of Western Freakin Europe after the war you putz!?
Dirty Deals like protecting your sorry bellybutton for the last 50 years?

BS of the highest order to sit on the sidelines and pass judgement on those who are actually causing things to happen in the world.
Logged

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2002, 10:08:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target


Dirty deals like feeding all of Western Freakin Europe after the war you putz!?
Dirty Deals like protecting your sorry bellybutton for the last 50 years?

BS of the highest order to sit on the sidelines and pass judgement on those who are actually causing things to happen in the world.


Midnight..no disrespect, but I think he was refering to:

Cuba - attempting to support a democratic government by recruiting Cubans to invade and then leaving them stranded after the "Bay of Pigs".
Vietnam - Mistaking Ho Chi Mihn for a communist initially, when in fact he was a Nationalist.  A mistake that cost the US 60,000 men.
El Salvador - Supporting a dubious government for years
Nicaragua - same as above
Panama - supporting Noriega and then having to invade the country in order to get rid of him.
Supporting Irag in their war with Iran - that tended to bite the Americans in the bellybutton a few years later.
Not ousting Hussein and leaving the Kurds to the mercy (or lack thereof) of the Iraqis.  He later supported terrorism to the maximum extent possible.

etc..I could go on..but I'm late for lunch..

Please don't get me wrong...I am a huge supporter of the US, but I am not blind to their horrible track record in certain cases.

Flame away.
Logged
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Sikboy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6702
India vs Pakistan
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2002, 10:14:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target


Dirty deals like feeding all of Western Freakin Europe after the war you putz!?
Dirty Deals like protecting your sorry bellybutton for the last 50 years?

BS of the highest order to sit on the sidelines and pass judgement on those who are actually causing things to happen in the world.


Ooooh... that's 10 demerits TahGut...

When someone who's interests are so closely tied to yours tries to polorize an issue, the last thing you want to do is give them the satisfaction. And if you choose to take that road, make fun of them like this: "If you've ever been treated in a UK hostpital, please send a thank you note to Lockheed"

Better yet, remind them of the "dirty deals" that got us here. The "Dirty Deal" with China after the Sino-Soviet split, when the US went in all nice with Mao, and we opened a new era of "engagement" with China. Or the "Dirty Deal" where the Russians increased support to India, in order to counterbalance the loss of China. Or the other dirty deal of the US selling weapons to Pakistan in order to play "quid pro quo" with the Russian/Indian cooperation.

Personally, I was happier when we took the Pakistani's money, and then kept the F-16s we were supposed to sell them. That was funny. It was also part of our efforts to curtail their nuclear program. As I mentioned above it was too little too late, but then again, it's hard to get too mad at them when their most hated neighbor has the bomb already. But I digress.... I don't like Musharraf. We like to call him "Predisent" but we should never lose sight that he is a dictator. But as was mentioned before, Pakistan has proved instrumental in our campaign against the Taliban. Perhaps we could have achieved success simply by using the former SSR's int he area, but I don' t know that, and neither does anyone else (damn those counterfactuals!) But working with Pakistan to Achieve one goal does not force our hand in other situations.

Anyhow there are some juicy bits in this argument that have nothing to do with the Marshall plan :)

-Sikboy
Logged
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
« previous next »