Author Topic: War on Drugs  (Read 3314 times)

Offline SC-Sp00k

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War on Drugs
« Reply #120 on: August 03, 2002, 08:40:15 AM »
The Netherlands experience already shows that the legalisation of Cannabis, increases Cannabis usage and does NOT effect Crime rate.

What message do you give to your kids in support of its legislation. You mention Alcohol and Cigarettes but their doing it now. Despite it being more harmful according to both sides of the arguement.  Legalisation will do nothing in preventing their induction to its use.  Instead of 2 evils, you willingly grant them 3.

You mention money spent on the War against Drugs. The officers in that Pro-legislation page, also bring it up.  Better used in social reform and health. You take away the Criminal elements market by undercutting them in cost.

The Criminal element will adapt. They always do. Drug Crime is the Siamese twin of Property Crime.   Dealers sell their drugs to Users who commit Property Crimes to pay for their Drugs.  Well we cracked down on dealers by chasing the Recievers through Pawn Shops, Markets, Private sales.  The dealers adapted. Instead of Cash for Drugs they now want Property.  Now its a swap meet. Drugs for Property and the Dealers offload interstate to make it harder for Investigators to identify goods.  Investigators adapt with trans-National Crime Policies and better co-operation between Police Forces and it goes on.

The big boys arent hoodlums with Metallica T-Shirts, Nike Shoes and a Hip Hop CD in hand.  These guys are businessmen. Smart Business men who adapt to changing markets to stay ahead of the Law or to Circle around it.  They have an Army of minions to sacrifice to the Cause.  They do not fear Drug Legislation, let alone for a drug like Cannabis which is readily available on the Free Market in bountiful quantities.  They will always have a Market and they can afford to sell it a lot cheaper for a lot longer than the Government can who sooner or later will charge you to maintain that legislation in the same way they charge you to fight the War on Drugs.

The Law does not win Wars. It wins battles. We win some, we lose some.  We never give up. Thats why ill never agree to Cannabis legislation. Despite the Officers on that Pro-Cannabis page and their plea to the rest of us for support and Common Sense. You cannot afford to give in.

For those of you who smoke it or dont smoke it and think you know what your kids are up to everytime they walk out your door.
That is nothing more than a parental dream, no different to when the tables were reversed and you were a kid.

SW points out that life is about experimentation and living life to the full with new things. We have all thought that at sometime or another. If your kids are to young, their time will come to.

And out there, there is a Drug Dealer or a User, waiting to show them. The kids concern about legislation is not who gives it to them. They do not have the experience or wisdom of age to make lifes choices as you and I do. There are somethings in life where  having a high intelligence Just isnt enough. Allow them access to that world with your permission and all they will care about, is that they can get it.   A generation of Ozzy Osbournes.

How many will be there to feed you your mush in your old age and wipe your ar$e.  If you open this door, it will open others that you will never be able to close.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2002, 08:51:36 AM by SC-Sp00k »

Offline mora

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« Reply #121 on: August 03, 2002, 01:42:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
The Netherlands experience already shows that the legalisation of Cannabis, increases Cannabis usage and does NOT effect Crime rate.
 


AFAIK crime rate and cannabis use haven't dropped there but both of them have been growing much slower than anywhere else in Europe.

Offline gofaster

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« Reply #122 on: August 06, 2002, 09:23:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wlfgng
define drugs


cafeine,
nicotine,
alchohol,
anti-depressants    ?


all these cause crime eh?

and how about the guy that grows his own ?


Young girls don't sell their bodies for coffee.

Young girls don't sell their bodies for a Pall Mall.

Young girls don't sell their bodies for a Budweiser.

Young girls don't sell their bodies for over-the-counter drugs.

The only people who want to see controlled substances legallized are those that have deluded themselves into thinking that they aren't addicted.

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2002, 09:39:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
The Netherlands experience already shows that the legalisation of Cannabis, increases Cannabis usage and does NOT effect Crime rate.
Well I would reckon it certainly lowers the cannabis possession/use crime rate - or did they never catch anyone smoking/dealing dope in the Netherlands prior to partial legalisation? :D

Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Young girls don't sell their bodies for coffee.
Young girls don't sell their bodies for a Pall Mall.
Young girls don't sell their bodies for a Budweiser.
Young girls don't sell their bodies for over-the-counter drugs.

The only people who want to see controlled substances legallized are those that have deluded themselves into thinking that they aren't addicted.
Hmm so legal drugs - no matter how addictive - don't lead to young girls selling their bodies. Is this an argument for or against legalisation?

Remember kids: drugs don't cause crime, only laws cause crime. :D
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2002, 11:29:57 AM »
hey Wulfe...                                   'ere       :cool:

----

gofaster I beg to differ.
girls/women will seel their bodes for anything given a certain circumstance.
I know of cases where they've sold their bodies for less than a cigarette.

I don't like drugs and many are deadly, but pot doesn't seem to be in the same 'league' as coke, heroin, etc.

it certainly causes a lot of people (especially around here) to be lazy and unproductive.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2002, 11:35:16 AM by Wlfgng »

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2002, 11:51:13 AM »
So... what we're after is a state-sponsored drug addiction program, where addictive drugs can be sold over-the-counter at prices low enough all citizens can buy them.

Some of you say you don't know if it will work, but you are willing to give it a try. Why don't you eat a mouthful of glass? I don't know if you will be able to digest it, but I'd be willing to watch you try... point is, if you want to conduct an experiment, try one that doesn't include the whole country. I have enough trouble every day without these "grand experiments" adding to it. :rolleyes:

A socialized drug addiction program... just what we need. Almost Orwellian in its implications...

Offline AKSWulfe (FMPW)

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« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2002, 11:53:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
A socialized drug addiction program...


Not much different than what we currently have.

Oh, but you meant illicit, right?
-SW

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2002, 12:01:57 PM »
Hortlund: You may know your kid, but you sure as he** dont know anything about how and why kids start smoking. Do you think its the generic ad campaigns that gets them hooked? Kids have heroes, these days those heroes are more likely to be movie stars or rock stars...see product placement above.

 I was a kid and played with smoking myself, but you sure as he** dont know much about american culture with regard to smoking. Before you qote abstract nonsense into discussion that specifically concerns our country, you may want to find out a bit about us.
 
 Unlike european TV, our TV almost never shows smoking on screen where kids can see it (and same goes for porn as well and a certain list of words). A show would not be caught dead doing a product placement for tobacco products - even if it did not violate ban on advertising. It may be political correctness but it's a fact of life here.
 There are some tricky ways that companies use like labels on clothes, but the fact is still that our kids and adults smoke much less than most europeans - even discounting drastic differences among various groups in US.

So you tell me, after we have legalized drugs, do you think we will see more moviestars and rockstars having a joint now and then?
 I doubt we can possibly see more of that than goes on now.

 miko
« Last Edit: August 06, 2002, 12:04:52 PM by miko2d »

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2002, 12:06:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
So... what we're after is a state-sponsored drug addiction program, where addictive drugs can be sold over-the-counter at prices low enough all citizens can buy them.

 Who said anything about sponsoring them? They are dirt cheap to make as it is.

 miko

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2002, 12:19:16 PM »
Snipped from another thread...

"You have to be kidding me!

Do you really think in a free market society, where an addictive product such as cocaine is available, it would be CHEAP!? That is, unless, the government puts a price cap so that it is available to all citizens at fair prices. *cough*socialized drug addiction*cough*.

Do you really think with a product such as cocaine maintaining "standards" would come without government intervention?

Do you really think the government should go into the business of dealing drugs over-the-counter to its people? (I can see the rebuttal now: "Iran/Contra") "

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2002, 12:22:34 PM »
I guess to be fair, this is the context in which I placed those last comments...

Quote
As I see it, he is a victim - of the war on drugs. But for war of drugs he could have bought cheap safe coke of regulated purity in convenient dozage at the pharmacy. No need to dip into kids' college savings or risk overdose/poisoning.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2002, 03:02:23 PM »
.
Quote
So... what we're after is a state-sponsored drug addiction program, where addictive drugs can be sold over-the-counter at prices low enough all citizens can buy them.


no doubt we already have the situation described.

I live in a ski resort community where many of the wealthier people are addicted to 'legal' drugs.  Where's the diff ?

btw I'm not trying to be fatetious (sp).  I know you're referring to pot, cocaine, heroin, etc..
but how much more addictive are they than alcohol, anti-depressants, etc ?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2002, 03:11:46 PM »
First, you know these people are abusing the law, if not outright breaking it.

Second, you know the same thing would happen if all drugs were legalized.

Third, you know I am correct when I state the government would have to be into it up to its eyeballs to make drugs legal- the government would in essence have to be the dealer.

Fourth, there are many here in complete denial about the fallout- especially where its effect on people and there desire to do anything else is concerned. Sorry, I look it in the face too often to share that denial.

No way legalizing drugs will make things better. Comparisons to prohibition are moot for this reason- alcohol had been present and legal forever in American society. Suddenly, the government clamps down. Of course people quite accustomed to getting the daily drink were going to find it wherever. The fact is, once it was started and ingrained, it wasn't going to stop. Same goes for the "grand experiment" proposal for legal drugs. Once that door is opened, there will be no closing it. Me, I'm not for experiments that can't be reversed, thank you very much.

Look, we are already a society that is growing fatter and lazier by the day- let's add drugged to it, eh?

Offline SC-Sp00k

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« Reply #133 on: August 07, 2002, 06:59:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

I was a kid and played with smoking myself, but you sure as he** dont know much about american culture with regard to smoking. Before you qote abstract nonsense into discussion that specifically concerns our country, you may want to find out a bit about us.
 
 Unlike european TV, our TV almost never shows smoking on screen where kids can see it (and same goes for porn as well and a certain list of words). A show would not be caught dead doing a product placement for tobacco products - even if it did not violate ban on advertising. It may be political correctness but it's a fact of life here.
miko [/B]


Are you telling me the Malbouro man was really a French Pastry maker with a Tall hat and a fetish for leather tassled chaps?

That Clint Eastwood as a Cowboy had a thick piece of dried Cow doo doo hanging out of his mouth that only smoked as a result of methane exudation?

That Charlie Bronson was sucking burnt lollipop sticks to emulate Tele Savalas so as not to upset the the children while he blew the badguys away left and right and splattered whole neighbourhoods with badguy guts?

That WoodStock was really an elaborate Western Powers Plot to delude the old world Soviet regime and lead them into a false sense of security whilst they secretely planned the very first moon landing?

Cause I think James Dean, the World wide Girl fantasy, blond, leather loving cigarette smoking American Dream idol would have something to say about that.

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2002, 08:05:04 AM »
Quote
Young girls don't sell their bodies for coffee.



ok and not for pot to
maybe for coke

but i hate the hard drugs including over usage of alcohol

a young girl would sell her body if she is addicted to alcohol
and that could happen

u can place pot in the same category as coffee

I'm already smokin pot more than 15 years come here look at me and u will see i'm not a junk

and a i work like all the rest of the normal people

alcohol also has the side effect that many die in traffic accidents or worser make other people invalid or death

I can tell i made my drivers licence while i smoked one an hour before the test

and yes it helps make it legal it works here in holland it does