Author Topic: War on Drugs  (Read 3306 times)

Offline Eagler

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War on Drugs
« Reply #165 on: August 08, 2002, 12:31:57 PM »
this thread is getting kinda funny ...

burn outs, please continue with your justifications :)
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Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #166 on: August 08, 2002, 12:56:43 PM »
Nevermind, I have no intention of insulting the majority of people who browse the internet.
-SW
« Last Edit: August 08, 2002, 01:11:03 PM by AKSWulfe »

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #167 on: August 08, 2002, 12:59:15 PM »
couple of thoughts...

the girl that OD'd on X.  umm, the current War on Drugs saved/helped her how?

Next, someone said somewhere in the thread (too many posts to go look for it, sorry) something about "when do you give your kid that first toke, that first injection..."  Well, when do you give your kid that first puff on a cigarette or that first swig of alcohol?  When do you first encourage your child to have unprotected sex?  Lemme guess, you don't.  You try your best to teach them the dangers of smoking, drinking and unprotected sex.  You definitely don't encourage your children to smoke, even though smoking after 18 is legal.  At least I would hope you don't encourage your children to smoke.  Just because an act is legal doesn't mean you as a parent would encourage or condone that activity by your child.  Laws don't parent the children.  You do.

The heart of the issue comes down to choice.  A person has a choice to do drugs or not do drugs, regardless of the legality of it.  Some people choose not to based on the legality, while some do it just to spite the legality.  The current "War on Drugs" goal is to remove that choice.  I don't think it's possible.  You're never going to remove the choice.  Illicit drugs will always be there for those who want them.  The best you will ever hope to accomplish is to educate to get as many possible people to choose "No" when given the choice or at least to use responsibly when they choose "Yes."

I believe the current WoD isn't working, and won't work.  However, I can't offer you a solution.  Analogy...  I can tell my car isn't working, but I sure as hell can't fix it.
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Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #168 on: August 08, 2002, 12:59:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wlfgng
spook.. how is marijuana a 'door' when alcohol isn't.
you say alcohol is probably  more dangerous than marijuana but it isn't a 'door'.

how do you figure ?


Alcohol is a "wall".

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #169 on: August 08, 2002, 01:02:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


Alcohol is a "wall".


How so?  I have a beer with dinner just about every night.  Some people have a glass of wine every night with their dinner.  How is that a wall?  Maybe some choose to climb over that wall (or dig under if you want to look at the analogy that way) to get to the harder stuff, while I choose to lean on the wall every once in awhile before going back the way I came?
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Offline hblair

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« Reply #170 on: August 08, 2002, 01:27:02 PM »

Offline hblair

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« Reply #171 on: August 08, 2002, 01:35:18 PM »


Dewd!  Score me some weed!

Offline Targo

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« Reply #172 on: August 08, 2002, 02:23:18 PM »
soft drugs (marihuana and such) should be legalized imo.

Here (Holland) we have that system where softdrugs are legalized and you can even grow a little weed-tree on your balcony for your own needs and it works great, you dont see much of drugs related criminality and people (especially students) are sooo relaxed :D

I have never seen ppl beeing agressive after smoking a joint, I heve seen them after drinking alcochol :P

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #173 on: August 08, 2002, 03:04:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


Alcohol is a "wall".


Dude.... That IS deep!

I always saw alcohol as more of a transom window, but thats just me.

Offline senna

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« Reply #174 on: August 08, 2002, 03:21:08 PM »
You guys still on this subject. So another drugy ODs or ruins his life. Not news to me. Pick up his own pieces, lets move on.

:D

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #175 on: August 08, 2002, 03:42:34 PM »
That's the best part about drug use.

It's soo Darwinian.

Offline Elfenwolf

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« Reply #176 on: August 08, 2002, 04:02:32 PM »
LOL OK, Wulfe, you first-

An ounce or less of cannabis is an infraction in California. In fact the ticket you'll get for posession of an open container of alcohol will cost you as much as the ticket you get for posessing a small quantity of pot- if you get ticketed at all. Really, you aren't the focus of the WoD. In fact the police in my area don't have time to bust casual users of pot, or in fact to even bust many of the indoor operations growing pot.

Now let's take your wish to go out and smoke pot as readily as I can stop at a bar and drink a beer. You agree neither of us should drive under the influence of ANY subject. OK, so I have my customary two beers after work and I drive home- still sober, my impairment from two beers is negligable. You, OTOH, drop into the corner bar, light up a joint- and, you'll agree, you get stoned, right? Well, what condition are YOU in to drive on home? Is this safe? Personally I'm glad you're confined to your home to safely smoke pot.

Comparing Cannabis to Alcohol is comparing apples and oranges. In fact law enforcement realizes the concequences of drunk driving and it's a certainty you will do some jail time if you get caught driving while drunk. By your own example- you standing on your back porch getting stoned- the most that might happen to you is you get your pot taken away and issued a citation. Most likely a cop will tell you to confine your smoking to indoors. OTOH, stand out on your back porch swigging Jack Daniels and guess what? You are going to jail for being drunk in public. Due to liability  that's simply SOP nowadays.

Wolfe, I appreciate your arguements for decriminalization and I agree we have substances currently legal whose effects on individuals and society are much worse than cannabis. But the penalties now against the casual user are so mild that I'm sure you'll agree that the risk of getting busted for smoking a joint in the privacy of your own home is pretty remote.

Nifty, concerning the girl who OD'd on Ecstacy- How could she have been saved by capitulating to the War on Drugs? We also have a War on Illiteracy. We also have a War on Teenage Pregnacy. We also have a War on Hunger. And you know what? We still have pregnant teens, illiteracy and hunger. Should we just give up?

I agree with you that education is tantamount, but doesn't it seem hypocritical to preach the ills of a substance (Ecstacy) while at the same time decriminializing a similar substance (Cannabis) that are linked together not only by the opponets of cannabis but also by its proponents? Ah yes- a political football kicked back and forth by both sides.

N1kpaz, how much did you spend on booze last night? Please, pot is pretty cheap. To imply you could go drinking for less than you can buy pot for is wrong.

Dead, actually i appreciated the post. In no way does it diminish the problems drug addiction has on society, so I was responding to the downplaying of that aspect of drugs. However, "Troll King?" LOL Please, this is no troll. This is a serious issue that one side sees as a hurdle to overcome for personal freedom and the other side sees as a gate that if opened will allow the further erosion of our society.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #177 on: August 08, 2002, 05:42:45 PM »
have to agree with Elf a bit..

and disagree...

Pot smokers should not drive while intoxicated...
but neither should alcohol drinkers.

you say you're ok to drive after two beers..
they say it's ok to drink after a joint...

same same IMO
both leave you less than optimum.

---
on a slightly related topic:

 some people on pot or booze are still more alert and coordinated than some that don't.

How about the soccer-mom in the suv that's upset and yelling at her kids to shut up while she talks on the cell phone,
or the guy eating his whole lunch from a plate in the passenger compartment,
or the turons that come the mountain and drink and smoke cigarettes before the go to the high country .. helps them succumb to hypothermia and injury,
etc

Offline Elfenwolf

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« Reply #178 on: August 08, 2002, 07:02:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wlfgng
have to agree with Elf a bit..

and disagree...

Pot smokers should not drive while intoxicated...
but neither should alcohol drinkers.

you say you're ok to drive after two beers..
they say it's ok to drink after a joint...

same same IMO
both leave you less than optimum.



Big difference. People can have one or two drinks to be "social." Two beers isn't going to effect me noticably at all. I know my limits, and the limits for the allowable amount of alcohol in my system is .08. I feel even at .08 I'm not really feeling the effects, but I'm willing to accept .08 as the legal limit because it's the established standard.

The guy that smokes a joint is smoking it with one objective in mind- he wants to get high. Let's not argue the puffs on the joint one must take to get stoned because it's so different from person to person. What should be the standard for smoking pot and driving?

Now, a few questions for you. Who would you rather have pilot your plane- someone who had a drink with his lunch or someone who'd just smoked a joint? Who would you rather have perform your brain surgery- someone who'd had a drink earlier or someone who'd smoked a joint? How about your child's math teacher? Would you wanting her smoking pot at lunchtime or having a drink?

I don't care if you smoke pot or not. In fact I'm glad its decriminalized to the point you can safely smoke pot in your living room without fear of a police attack because police are too overworked to bust guys for smoking pot in their living rooms.. And honestly, now- Are you guys that paranoid the police might bust you for smoking pot? I feel because pot is so wrapped up with dangerous drugs like ecstacy, meth or coke or whatever I feel it would be hypocritical to preach against drugs yet start legalizing them. It would send the wrong message to our kids, IMO. Sorry.

Offline keeler

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« Reply #179 on: August 08, 2002, 07:19:24 PM »
Im glad I have my hip waders on to wade through this

Shiiet :D


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