Urgent advice needed - very serious post.

[Eagler]

while we're at it ....

what the hell happened to the swats one received in HS? Both the dean of boys and PE teachers used to pop us when we broke the rules or got outa line. Guess what, we didn't get out of line too often.  

Though sometimes we justified that skipping first period was worth the three swats we'd get for it

bunch of wimps nowadays

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Eagler
while we're at it ....

what the hell happened to the swats one received in HS? Both the dean of boys and PE teachers used to pop us when we broke the rules or got outa line. Guess what, we didn't get out of line too often.  

Though sometimes we justified that skipping first period was worth the three swats we'd get for it

bunch of wimps nowadays

Well toejame... was going to quip off something about your age or your region and then the memory hit of that bigass paddle in the principles office at junior high...

[AKIron]

Certainly the weakest (children) in our society should be protected from abuse and for the most part there is no one better suited for this job than parents.

I'm glad that parents have some legal leway in deciding what is best for their children. After all, parents are responsible for the actions of the children, or at least they should be. I believe that if parents were held more accountable for their children's actions then the world would probably be a better place to live.

It's good that people can find avenues to discuss various methods for discipline and seek advice for dealing with specific issues and problems without fear of reprisal. Maybe this is one of them.

[wsnpr]

Originally posted by Kieran
Yup, getting that boy removed from his parents' home and giving mom a criminal record for something that probably was out of the ordinary is always a good idea. God forbid you should ever be in a similar situation with one of your kids.

If it were an isolated, one-time event, then I doubt the kids would be removed from their parents. I'm betting that this isn't the first time the kids have been beaten by their parents. Where did that 3 yr old learn to kick someone in the face? It was probably learned from his parents kicking him. Violence is learned.

Let's turn this situation around. How would you feel if it was YOUR 3 yr old son being:
1) Yanked so hard that his neck cracked like a whip. (possibilty of a broken neck, whiplash, or brain hemmorage)
     and
2) Hit so hard on the face, an imprint of 3 fingers were left on his face afterwards. (possible fracture of the facial area of the skull)
     and
3) Spanked really hard.
All this by a babysitter(adult) or some other adult you have entrusted the safety of your 3 yr old. Provided the kid survives physically, he learns to react with excessive violence first before verbally trying to settle an arguement.

I would really be surprised that anyone here would allow the above to happen to their own children.

Would you not agree that it is better for the kids to be seperated from their ABUSIVE parents before they end up brain damaged or dead? At the very minimum an investigation should be done regarding the kid's safety.

[Kieran]

Yup, I am a teacher, and I know sometimes kids are better off without their birth parents. Yet that isn't the point.

None of us were there but Wulf. He has given one small snapshot of what he saw, and that from his perspective. We already know there is a wide disparity in opinion about what constitutes beating and spanking. So, in this particular case he outlines what he perceived, and many are all set to jerk those kids out of the house. You know as well as I do welfare can do a number on that mother, whether she is guilty or not. Some of you have gone on to say what a horrible parent this mother is, and all you have to go on is heresay. That's dangerous, at least as dangerous as what the woman is accused of being.

If I swat the behind of my child in the grocery store, I stand a very good chance of having her at least temporarily removed from my home, and having a charming little folder with my name on it created and labeled "suspected child abuser". Some of you might even agree that I am, and would be ready to take my kids from me. I could talk myself blue in the face denying I habitually beat my children, because so many would be so quick to want to believe it. That's dangerous.

Once again today I have to say we are only getting one side of the story, and it would be interesting to hear the other perspective.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


Well toejame... was going to quip off something about your age or your region and then the memory hit of that bigass paddle in the principles office at junior high...

So. Cal boy here and Coach B. had a paddle that he drilled little holes into... said it cut down on wind resistance.

Damn that hurt.

[Red Ant]

Originally posted by Ripsnort


Yeah, like liberals are not spanked, and conservatives are, no wonder y'all are messed up!

What gives you the idea that i'm a "Liberal"? You think after 15 years in the Soviet Union i'd want ANYTHING to do with Socialism???

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by midnight Target


So. Cal boy here and Coach B. had a paddle that he drilled little holes into... said it cut down on wind resistance.

Damn that hurt.

Oh yeah MT my coach had the same paddle. God that sucker hurt...(sigh) My wife spanks me now but it's just not the same.

[wulfie]

Hold on there Kieran.

I never said she was a child abuser.

I kept myself from making any judgement, because no matter how shocked I was I have zero experience when it comes to raising kids. My Ps said I was spanked a couple of times when there was potential danger - i.e. I was struggling to break free from a held hand in a parking lot, etc. I have no recollection of ever being spanked, or of my Ps screaming at me even once. For my Mom or Dad to imply that I let them down was crushing punishment for me at as early an age as I can remember.

Anyways - that's why I asked for some opinions from people who have raised/are raising kids. I wasn't going to do anything that could impact the Mom, Family, etc. based on my judgement alone in this case - because I have nothing to base my judgement on that applies to this situation.

To be honest my default response was to chalk it up to panic. But I asked for opinions to make sure I didn't leave a situation that would have been bad for the kids unaddressed.

Mike/wulfie

[wulfie]

Also, someone mentioned the 3 finger marks on the cheek.

Lots of full contact martial arts experience here - cheeks mark very very easy. Very easy to get a mark on your cheek that will be gone in 1 hour at most. Also, being a slap the chance of causing a facial bone fracture is nearly impossible (those bones are very strong because in caveman times a fractured sinus = death).

Just a 'human physiology FYI'.

Mike/wulfie

[Kieran]

No, Wulf, I am not directing any of that at you. I am pointing out the way many of the people on this board have responded is premature, and they surely don't appreciate the seriousness of the advice they are giving you.

It isn't just a simple thing to call welfare, they check it out, no big deal if you're wrong. You can get those kids taken away from that mother, and you want to be reasonably sure you are right before you go down that path.

"Think of the kids, you can't take a chance!" some will say. Yeah, until it is someone accusing YOU of being a child abuser, and YOUR kids get taken away. Hey, there certainly are times when you should contact welfare, no doubt about it, but reread this thread and see how many were yelling "Hang the witch!" based on nothing more than your words.

[Kanth]

I remember swats..

choice was either swats (someone hits you with a paddle)

or 3 day suspension from school.

not a hard choice...

Originally posted by Eagler
while we're at it ....

what the hell happened to the swats one received in HS? Both the dean of boys and PE teachers used to pop us when we broke the rules or got outa line. Guess what, we didn't get out of line too often.  

Though sometimes we justified that skipping first period was worth the three swats we'd get for it

bunch of wimps nowadays

[Swager]

Hey!  My Dad gave me a few whoopin I deserved and look how I turned out!!  Nicest guy ya ever want to meet.  If ya cant get along with me it is your own fault.  Im the nicest guy I know, bar none!!

A good spankin is good for a child.  Puts things back into perspective for the young one.