Author Topic: The war on Iraq is already under way  (Read 662 times)

Offline Toad

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2002, 12:51:25 AM »
In all the "yes, they did" / "no they didn't" stuff since 9/11, I can't remember if these two items were ever proven false:

Mohamed Atta - chief hijacker -- met not once but twice with senior Iraqi intelligence officers in Prague, Czech Republic.

The first meeting, according to U.S. and Czech intelligence sources, occurred last Autumn and involved a high-level emissary of Iraqi intelligence, a man by the name of Ahmed Samir al-Ahani.

The second, follow-up meeting reportedly took place in the spring, this time with a former director of Saddam Hussein's external secret services, a Mr. Farouk Hijazi (currently Iraqi Ambassador to Turkey), who personally met with Osama Bin Laden.

Then there's these clips from THE GUARDIAN from the FAS.org site:

"The Guardian, Feb 6, carried two articles.  The shorter article
began, "Saddam Hussein's regime has opened talks with Osama bin Laden, bringing closer the threat of a terrorist attack using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons."  But as Ahmed Allawi, a senior INC official, advised, that it is not new, "There is a long history of contacts between the Mukhabarat [Iraqi secret service] and Osama bin Ladin."

Also, Cannistraro explained that the Hijazi-bin Ladin meeting occurred "with the knowledge of the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar."  As a reader remarked, the Taliban are a nasty bunch and the US does not recognize them as the legitimate Gov't of Afghanistan.  Rather, it recognizes the Afghan Gov't in exile, in Tehran.

The longer Guardian article, entitled, "The Western nightmare: Saddam and Bin Ladin versus the World," reporting on the Hijzazi-Bin Ladin meeting, observed, "Thus, the world's most notorious pariah state, armed with its half-built hoard of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, tried to embrace the planet's most prolific terrorist."
   
***

Anybody have any info on the veracity of these statements? Did they ever "prove" anything?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sandman

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2002, 01:27:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
In all the "yes, they did" / "no they didn't" stuff since 9/11, I can't remember if these two items were ever proven false:


Was that meeting every proven? I didn't think so...
sand

Offline Toad

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2002, 01:37:45 AM »
So, Sandman, what do you make of this assessment?

Mohamed Atta and Iraqi embassy intelligence officer

"In other words, to date, Czech intelligence, the only agency anywhere that claimed to monitor the meeting, stood by its guarantee that the atta-al-Ani had taken place.

What changed in this ping-pong journalism therefore was not any new revelations— or retractions— but the introduction of an anonymous “senior administration source” with an unknown agenda, whose claim that “the Czechs” doubted the meeting took place, has now been directly denied by the relevant officials. "

He does give dates and names for his sources... you have any counter information?

I'm asking.. not engaging. This little item seems to have gotten lost amongst the other problems.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2002, 01:41:05 AM »
Found this one too.....

Mohamed Atta Was Here


"...Czech officials say they have a photograph of the meeting...

The story of Atta's contact with an Iraqi agent has been disputed by some American and European officials. Time, the Washington Post, and Newsweek, plus other publications, have raised doubts about it.

But last week Martin Palous, the Czech ambassador to the United States, gave me the same account of Atta's time in Prague as other Czech officials had given to New York Times columnist William Safire, who first wrote about the Atta visit last November. Palous was home in Prague for consultations and a vacation. Both Czech prime minister Milos Zeman and interior minister Stanislav Gross have also publicly confirmed the meeting between Atta and al-Ani."

If the Czechs mentioned did publicly confirmed it, that part should be "checkable".

Comments?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Udie

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2002, 11:21:14 AM »
welcome aboard the bus 10bears :)

 I read that article and I'm sorry to say that it was no diferent than reading a rant by our very own Weazel.   This guy is a respected journalist?

Offline Kieran

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2002, 12:34:52 PM »
Quote
Eight hundred pages, prepared in just two weeks? No. That was planned well before the attacks. Congress, of course, passed it without even reading it.


Nope, definitely not a conspiracy theory at all. Hehe, what a dope.

Offline Hortlund

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2002, 12:50:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
Buchanan is absolutely right. This decision, both constitutionally and morally, rests with Congress, and Congress alone. If Putsch tries to launch an attack unilaterally, we should impeach him immediately, and invoke the 22nd amendment, declaring him unfit to fulfill the duties of his office. He is NOT going to cost us hundreds of billions and get tens of thousands of people killed, including Americans, without a good reason why.
 

Someone should show this guy a videotape of what happened at the WTC on 9-11 last year.

Anyway, whats with the impeachment stuff? You american guys correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the president allowed to take the country to war if there is a clear and present danger or something like that...but then he has to get approval from congress within 3 weeks?

Oh...is there another way to launch an attack but unilaterally?

Offline Ripsnort

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2002, 12:53:24 PM »
Just to throw another twist into this:

Iraq, Russian sign 40 billion dollar economic pact[/size]
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20020818_56.html

Offline Thrawn

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2002, 12:58:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Just to throw another twist into this:

Iraq, Russian sign 40 billion dollar economic pact[/size]
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20020818_56.html


Looks like the Russians are exercising there rights as a soverign nation and doing whatever the fek they want, regardless of any diplomatic consequences...hmmm that sounds familiar.

Offline Toad

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2002, 01:19:20 PM »
What better way to find out what Iraq is really up to than to have the Russians meet with them and determine what products/arms they want and where they want things put or things constructed .... and then tell us.  :)

It's like an onion, this recon game. Always another layer.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2002, 01:59:22 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lord dolf vader

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2002, 02:46:34 PM »
or mayby they think we are full of crap and the whole war thing is political manuvering by a guy with a i.q. of 70 who has made so many blunders that blind patriotism is the only chance he has for reelection. So they are throwing their weight behind the good guys in their eyes. You know like they publicly say they are doing.

just a thought.

Offline Kieran

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2002, 03:00:35 PM »
Back up the I.Q. claim. Please. And feel free to link to the study made by the fictitious university a couple of the more liberal and less... thorough... magazines published.

SAT or ACT scores will do.

Offline Toad

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2002, 03:03:28 PM »
Heard it on Letterman, right?

Debunked here.  :D

On G.W. Bush's IQ (or Lack Thereof)

If you're out of intellectual ammo, throw sh*t?  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline 10Bears

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2002, 03:37:20 PM »
We're goin' in!... I bet you my new Afterburner11 that came yesterday.

This guy Debka I usually don't trust but he has ties to Israeli military information. Toad may be right this could be a disinformation campaign to rattle Saddam but it is highly detailed
Keep in mind Israel is highly pro attack.

Debka report follows
=====================================

 Report: US Military Operations Already Underway

in Iraq
                  US Iraq Campaign Has Its First Engagement
                  DEBKAfileSpecial Military Analysis

                  Saturday, 10 August, 2002

 10 August: America's offensive against Saddam
Hussein's regime in Iraq has begun as an exercise in gradualism
rather than a D-Day drama. DEBKAfile's military sources report
that tens of thousands of US, British, French, Netherlands, Australian troops may take part in the campaign, openly or covertly, but not in massive waves that fling themselves telegenically on Baghdad.

                  The fact of the matter is that American
military concentrations are already unobtrusively present in
northern and southern Iraq. The US campaign to oust Saddam is
therefore unfolding already, albeit in salami-fashion, slice by
slice, under clouds of disinformation and diversionary ruses ­
like the latest statements by President George W. Bush (No date
set yet for the offensive) and British premier Tony Blair (Plenty

of time before the war begins),or the grave reservations issuing
from the Russian, French and German leaders. The peasoup of
deception isfurther thickened by utterances in the last 48 hours
from Turkish prime minister Bulent Ecevit, King Abdullah of
Jordan, President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt and the Saudi crown
prince Abdullah. They warn Washington that attacking Iraq would
be a terrible mistake, one which they want no part of.

DEBKAfile's military sources attempt here to
pierce some of the thickets of confusion with a few facts on the
ground:

A. Special US forces entered the Kurdish
regions of north Iraq towards the end of March nearly four months
ago, to set up local Kurdish militias and train them for battle.

   B. At around the same time, Turkish special
forces went into northern Iraq in waves that continued through
April, fetching up in Turkmen regions around the big oil towns of
Mosul and Kirkuk.

   C. Meanwhile, the Americans threw a ring of
bases ­ using existing facilities and adding new ones ­ around
Iraq. They have since been pouring into those bases US armored
ground units, tanks, air, navy and missile forces, as well as
combat medical units and special contingents for anti-nuclear,
biological and chemical warfare.
 
According to our sources, the noose around Iraq
extends from Georgia and Turkey in the north, Israel, Egypt and
Jordan to the west, Eritrea and Kenya in the southwest, and Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and Bahrain to the south.

Furthermore, a large US armada, including aircraft carriers, has assembled at three points: the eastern Mediterranean, the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf.

 D. Since June, American and Turkish
construction engineers have been working in northern Iraq,
building and expanding airfields and air strips to make them fit
for military use.

                  First US Military Steps

In the past week, once those preparations were
in place, the United States carried out two military operations:

    1. Tuesday August 6, at 0800 hours Middle East
time, US and British air bombers went into action and destroyed
the Iraqi air command and control center at al-Nukhaib in the
desert between Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The center contained advanced fiber optic networks

recently installed by Chinese companies. DEBKA-Net-Weekly's
military sources say the raid made military history. For the
first time, the US air force used new precision-guided bombs
capable of locating and destroying fiber optic systems. The
existence of such weaponry was hitherto unknown.

   Following the destruction of the facility,about 260 miles (415 kilometers), southwest of Baghdad, waves of US warplanes swept in from the Prince Sultan air base in Saudi Arabia and from US aircraft carriers in the Gulf and flew over
the Iraqi capital.

 The Iraqi air force and anti-aircraft system held their fire on orders from above. This deep air penetration told the Americans that the early warning radar system protecting

Baghdad and its environs from intrusion by enemy aircraft and
missiles was inactive.
[/color]

Offline 10Bears

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The war on Iraq is already under way
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2002, 03:39:54 PM »

2. Two days later, on Wednesday night, August
8, Turkey executed its first major military assault inside Iraq.
DEBKAfile's military sources learn from Turkish and Kurdish
informants that helicopters under US, British and Turkish
warplane escort flew Turkish commandos to an operation for
seizing the critical Bamerni airport in northern Iraq. This
airport, just outside the Kurdish region, lies 50 miles north of
the big Iraqi oil cities of the north, Kirkuk and Mosul. With the

Turkish commandos was a group of US special forces officers and
men.  Bamerni airport was captured after a brief battle
in which a unit of Iraqi armored defenders was destroyed, opening

the airport for giant American and Turkish transports to deliver
engineering units, heavy machinery and electronic support
equipment, which were put to work at once on enlarging the field
and widening its landing strips. The American unit, reinforced, went on to capture two small Iraqi military airfields nearby.

 The Turkish expeditionary force in northern
Iraq now numbers some 5,000 men, in addition to Turkish air force
contingents.

DEBKAfile's military experts explain that with Bamerni airport and the two additional airfields the Americans have acquired full control of the skies over the two oil cities of Mosul and Kirkuk, as well as over the Syrian-Iraqi railroad, which they can now cut off by aerial bombardment. A prime strategic asset, this railroad is Saddam's back door for taking delivery of his illegal overseas arms purchases, which are ferried from Syrian ports to Baghdad by the Syrian-Iraqi railway.

On the return journey, the same railway carries illegal Iraqi oil
exports, over and above the quantities allowed under UN
sanctions, out to market. The Iraqi war effort and the Syrian
treasury depend heavily on the revenues accruing from these
smuggled oil sales.

 The battle over this airfield was in fact the first important face-to-face engagement between a US-led invasion

force and Iraqi troops. It was carried out seven hours before the
Iraqi ruler delivered his televised speech to the nation, on the
14th anniversary of the bloody eight-year Iraq-Iran war. In that
speech, Saddam threatened American troops going to war against Iraq that they would return
home in coffins.

                  Next Steps

 Just before the Saddam address, US spy
satellites and planes detected unusual movements by elite
Republic Guard units in the capital. They appeared to be digging
positions below ground on the banks of the Tigris. Some military
commentators were convinced the Iraqi ruler had decided to bury
himself and his key associates in fortified bunker-type positions. He was said to be counting on American reluctance to engage in urban warfare in Iraqi towns for fear of large-scale-casualties that would force them to withdraw.

DEBKAfile's military experts see little sign of
this tactic ­ aside from the initial report. In fact, the bulk of
the Iraqi army is concentrated in three regions outside Baghdad -

the Kurdish regions of the north, the H-3 and al Baghdadi air
bases opposite the Jordanian border in the center, and along the
Saudi and Kuwaiti frontiers, in the south.

In the north, the Iraqi armored divisions,
which are massed opposite the Turkish border along the Little and

Big Zeb Rivers, show now sign of movement in response to
US-Turkish activity.

Iraqi concentrations in the center and south
have been augmented somewhat but not substantially.

Iraq's military passivity in the face of US-led

advances and strikes is beginning to worry the American, Turkish
and Israeli high commands. They suspect that Saddam is playing
the same fog-of-war game as Washington, so as to put them to
sleep and then catch them unawares.

  Such sudden action could take the form of an
Iraqi missile or bomber attack on Israel using warheads loaded
with radioactive, chemical or biological materials, a combined
missile-terrorist strike to sabotage Saudi oil fields, or a mass
terrorist attack in the United States.

 The sharpest alert to a threat to Iraq's
southern neighbors came not from military intelligence but from
international oil dealers, who warned that Saddam Hussein if
attacked may well decide to set fire to Saudi and Kuwaiti oil
fields, sending oil prices skyrocketing above US$ 40 per barrel.

                  Israel's Concerns

 Israel faces three threats, all of them in the
realm of the unknown:

 a. An Iraqi missile attack, when the size of
Saddam's arsenal has not been reliably established.  DEBKAfile's
military experts dispute the assessment heard this week from
retired Israeli military leaders that the Iraqis have only a few
missiles. The truth is that no one outside Iraq knows how many
Saddam has cached or what advanced missile technologies he has secretly developed. According to one estimate, Iraq may have
accumulated between 70 and 150 warheads, or maybe more.

 b. A WMD threat, when no one knows what Saddam
has up his sleeve ­ whether radiological bombs with a limited
radius, or a more highly developed type. The same questions apply

to Saddam's biological and chemical warfare capabilities.

 c. Notwithstanding the presence of US forces in

Jordan and the strategic-defense relationship developed between
Jordan and Israel, the possibility of the old Eastern Arab Front
coming back to life against Israel, though unlikely, cannot be
entirely ruled out.

                  The gloomiest scenario envisages Iraqi units
surging through Jordan to attack Israeli from the east
concurrently with a Syrian-Hizballah strike from the north ­ a
combined assault that may sweep King Abdullah into the fray
against Israel.

The Jordanian king is an unknown quantity,
untried in war situations. Therefore the odds on his executing an

about-face as radical as this cannot be estimated with certainty.

Israeli war planners, however, are not ignoring this possible
peril, however improbable.
[/COLOR]
=============================================

Lock n' load this looks like a real report!