Author Topic: The Real Eve  (Read 3046 times)

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #165 on: August 27, 2002, 02:26:21 PM »
Lets assume for just a moment that we cannot create (new) life in the lab. What exactly does that prove Mr. Hortlund3?

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #166 on: August 27, 2002, 02:26:45 PM »
Is Europa that giant ice ball?

If it is- man that moon has entrigued me since I first read about it in Air & Space (I think) while waiting in a doctors office several years ago.

We have fish, plants and other creatures in the depths of our seas where light never reaches.. yet they manage to live. We haven't even seen 'em all either..

Remember those prehistoric fish that were just recently found? I forget what they were called..

Just think about all that stuff.. and you begin to realise just how little we know... but this is what makes it acceptable to believe in a God. A couple thousand years from now, I can't help but think what the people of then will think about the people of now.. and how much more we will have learned.

We will be simple by their standards.
-SW

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #167 on: August 27, 2002, 02:47:28 PM »
Yer not supposed to go near Europa man didn't you see the movie??

http://tma1.virtualave.net/2010/2010.htm


Quote
Originally posted by Wlfgng
can't wait to find life on say Europa..

sooner or later the Creationists will have to deal with that info.
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #168 on: August 27, 2002, 02:48:59 PM »
Anyone with even an introduction to biology can tell you that life is not such a fragile thing. It seems to be not only resilient, but tenacious. If there is liquid water, there is usually life. We really have yet to find a sterile environment here on Earth that included liquid water.

"Black Smokers" are small volcanic areas in the deep Atlantic. The pressures are crushing, the water temp varies from 700+ to 25f. Yet these places have formed entire ecosystems based on the energy derived from sulfuric compounds. No sunlight, no photosynthesis.... a completely alien ecosystem that has never seen the light of day, nor needs to.

As to ra's point. He seems to be alluding to entropy. This is true enough, entropy exists, but entropy is a term refering to energy in a closed system. We hardly have that here. The Sun is just one of the external sources of energy which contribute to changes. There is no entropy as long as there is input.

More complex things are formed from simpler things every day. Your body does it with simple sugars and amino acids. A SuperNova does it by creating heavy atoms from hydrogen.

No need to close your mind to the possibility that we have Evolved simply because it might be at odds with a literal interpretation of Genesis. I think that would upset God. He did give us these wonderful minds for a reason.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #169 on: August 27, 2002, 03:09:21 PM »
yes Europa is an ice planet thought to have a liquid water interior heated by thermal action.

It would not be surprising to find life similar to life found near black smokers (volcanic vents) on the bottom of Earth's oceans.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #170 on: August 27, 2002, 03:20:50 PM »
Unfortunately, this thread could go on forever.

God, no god, creation, evolution, unified theories, flux theories, big bang theories, etc...

It'll still all be speculation until our feeble minds shut down for the last time. Then we will know.

I don't pretend to know what will happen, what is happening, and what has happened... I only question and guess.... I just want people who say, "I've been here a while, and I know God." to think for a second... what if everything they know is simply a fable created by simple minded individuals in far simpler times to explain the existance of themselves and this planet.

Afterall, we are less than a needle in the universe of hay.
-SW

Offline H. Godwineson

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« Reply #171 on: August 27, 2002, 03:34:49 PM »
I started this thread to promote peace, brotherly love, and harmony between the races.  Such a nice little thread.:)

WOW!    

What happened?

I would like to add one thought here. One of you has said we will learn the truth when our feeble minds shut down.  That isn't exactly true.

If atheists are right about the existence of God, when they die they will never know the truth, for they will be aware of nothing.

If deists are right about the existence of God, they will have the satisfaction of knowing the truth.

Would that about sum it up?


Regards, Shuckins

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #172 on: August 27, 2002, 03:38:34 PM »
Quote
Afterall, we are less than a needle in the universe of hay


maybe you're a needle.. I'm a thorn.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #173 on: August 27, 2002, 03:38:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by H. Godwineson
If atheists are right about the existence of God, when they die they will never know the truth, for they will be aware of nothing.

If deists are right about the existence of God, they will have the satisfaction of knowing the truth.

Would that about sum it up?


Not really. That's when you run into the problem of which religion has the right God.

Besides, as I understand it... just because you don't know God doesn't mean you can't be forgiven. A long time in purgatory, then chance for redemption. Atleast that's how Christian's state it.

Either way, it's still open to interpretation... which is exactly why I dislike organized religion.
-SW

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #174 on: August 27, 2002, 03:39:58 PM »
No, you're a pinhead Wlfgng. :D
-SW

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #175 on: August 27, 2002, 05:26:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Exactly what are babies then?

They aren't new life... they are just modified life. Taking the mom's genetics, and the dad's genetics, and splicing them. Bam! A baby.

So, are babies not new life?
(and this leads back to the two sheep... one created from the other... but is different than the parent sheep the cell came from)
-SW


No, it is not new life from scratch in the sense of getting life from inanimate objects. It is more accurately a continuation of life, though not in the immortal sense.

Offline Cobra

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« Reply #176 on: August 27, 2002, 05:36:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Unfortunately, this thread could go on forever.

God, no god, creation, evolution, unified theories, flux theories, big bang theories, etc...

 -SW


Cats...don't forget cats...we discussed them too!

Cobra

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #177 on: August 27, 2002, 05:48:13 PM »
They took a cell from a sheep and turned it into an entirely new sheep.

They don't think they same, they are two different sheep.

It's a new life. The same way religion would describe it- a totally new mental process.

Otherwise twins wouldn't exactly be two seperate lives, now would they?
:)
-SW

Offline Hortlund3

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« Reply #178 on: August 27, 2002, 05:57:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Lets assume for just a moment that we cannot create (new) life in the lab. What exactly does that prove Mr. Hortlund3?


That would indicate that the evolution theory is flawed.

Remember the criteria for scientific knowledge midnight?

Miko2d put it rather well when he said "The unique property of science is that it makes usable and verifiable predictions and that all its statements can be disproved. There is a whole lot of knowlege that does not fall under the definition of scientific knowlege because there is no way to disprove it or make verifiable predictions based on it even if it were true."

So ok, we have this theory about the primordeal soup. We have the ingredients in this soup, and the theory says that we should add electricity and somehow life will "spawn" or whatever.

Here is a theory, that science has tried to verify using thousands of experiments, but not once have they succeeded. That makes the theory flawed. Or maybe flawed is a strong word, lets just say that it makes the theory just that...a theory...nothing else. And guess what, there is no ranking among theories, they all are equally "true".

Lets talk a bit more about this primordeal soup and the creation of life midnight.
Lets look at probabilities shall we?

Dr. James Coppedge, of the Center for Probability Research in Biology in California, made some interesting calculations.

Dr. Coppedge applied all the laws of probability studies to the possibility of a single cell coming into existence by chance. He considered in the same way a single protein molecule, and even a single gene. He was very generous to the evolutionists, in fact he computed a world in which the entire crust of the earth - all the oceans, all the atoms, the whole crust were included in "the soup".

He then had these amino acids bind at a rate one and one-half trillion times faster than they do in nature.

In computing the possibilities, he found that to provide a single protein molecule by chance combination would take 10, to the 262nd power, years." (That is, the number 1 followed by 262 zeros.)

To get a single cell - the single smallest living cell known to mankind - which is called the mycroplasm hominis H39, would take 10, to the 119 841st power, years. Try to write it down, use a normal sized book. Start on page one with a "1" and then write 60 pages of zero's behind it. That is how many years it would take to make one living cell, smaller than any human cell.

According to Emile Borel, a French scientist specialized in the area of probability, an event on the cosmic level with a probability of less than 1 out of 10, to the 50th power, will not happen. The probability of producing one human cell by chance is 10, to the 119,000 power.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2002, 06:14:13 PM by Hortlund3 »

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #179 on: August 27, 2002, 06:11:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund3

would take 10, to the 119,841st power, years. That means that if you took thin pieces of paper and wrote 1 and then wrote zeros after it, you would fill up the entire known universe with paper before you could ever even write that number


10 followed by 119,841 is big, but no where near that big.