Gunnery Question

[VoX]

Never bothered to ask before but, How is the gunnery worked out in AH.

i.e. will firing a .50 at a Panzer eventually kill it or is it useless? Armour to Velocity ratio?

All answers/Suggestions Welcome.

VoX
9./JG54

[Animal]

.50 will bounce off

ballistics model is pretty well done. based on penetration and all that crap. someone else can explain better.

[Jochen]

I think damage is cumulative ie. you can kill tank with 12.7 mm MG's if you keep firing long enough. 20 mm Hispano is much better in this.

New system will check amount of kinetic energy and thus penetreation capability (which also depends on round/armour angle) round has and compare it against armour. If round can penetrate armour it does damage, if not, nothing happens to tank and round richochets away.

This means that 20 mm Hispano will become much less effective against tanks since it cannot penetrate tank armour unless it is almost perpendicular to top or rear armour. No rounds pentrate armour, no damage to tank.

Also tank vs tank fights will become much more different. No more 4000 yds kills because 75L48 cannot penetrate 80 mm front armour of PzKw IVH at all ranges. Also tank's turret and hull facing becomes an issue, making it neccessary to hit specific parts of tank to kill it effectively.

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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolschevismus!

[Jochen]

This has never been discussed in detail I think. I hope HTC finds time to give us bit information about the current and new system.

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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolschevismus!

[Sancho]

I have killed panzers with 50 cals in my jug... ok it was 3 jugs making pass after pass on it and it took a ton of rounds but 50s alone killed it.

[Kieran]

The only reason I would attack a tank with a .50 armed anything would be to distract it. As Sancho has so clearly illustrated it is an utter waste of time, and that ammo is better reserved for the fighters that may support the tank.

Yes, the new penetration model is going to be interesting WRT armored columns and base attacks. It is beginning to sound like the only way to kill a tank will be with a rocket or bomb attack, and iffy then. No more ignoring tanks until they are right on the apron of the field I would guess...

[Jochen]

Yes, now tanks are largely ignored as a threat because they can be killed so easily by Hispano equipped planes. Not so in future. Average pilots bombing skills are not too great, especially against point targets like tanks.

Historically best anti tank weapon was another tank and I think it will so in Ah too after new vehicle damage model.

One thing that needs to be addressed too is Panzer main gun dispersion, now there is none or it is not historically large.

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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolschevismus!

[Kirin]

I have been disabled in a Ostie from a P51 before. Yes, it was the only plane - no, he did not drop any ordinance!!!  

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Animal:
.50 will bounce off

ballistics model is pretty well done. based on penetration and all that crap. someone else can explain better.

No, I dont think they will bounce off but I have on very infrequent occassion been able to kill a pansie with the 6 50s from a P51.  It takes ALOT of shots and just about used my complete clip.  Think a friendly finished him off but I did get the kill.

-Ding

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Dingy:
No, I dont think they will bounce off but I have on very infrequent occassion been able to kill a pansie with the 6 50s from a P51.  It takes ALOT of shots and just about used my complete clip.  Think a friendly finished him off but I did get the kill.

-Ding

Sure you didnt just disable a track and he eventually got bored and bailed giving you the kill.

[Kieran]

I have found that attacking a panzer with .50's is useless, and attacking an Osti is worse than useless- the Osti will kill you long before you can make multiple passes.

The only way I tackle GV's in a .50-equipped plane is with bombs and rockets, or in an effort to distract the GV jock from the real threat coming to kill it.

[funked]

Panzers can be killed with about 150 .50 cal rounds to the hull.  The lower front hull seems to be best.  I have done this countless times in H2H and Dueling Arena.  They explode.

The strange thing is that you can drive up next to a halftrack and spray your MG down into the drivers compartment with no effect.

But the .50 can explode a panzer.

Oops.

That's why I stopped playing vehicles a few tours ago.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-26-2001).]

[hazed-]

so now not only hispano lasers but super penetrating rounds....and another straw for our backs the .50cals can kill tanks.

well assuming this kind of thing is a modelling error on .50s does this mean we have been fighting unfair .50's too?

SAY IT AINT SO........

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Hazed
3./JG2

[Bohica]

I think the p47 used to kill tanks with their machine guns in real life.

They could approach from the back and they would ricochet into the cabin off the back deck.  I read that somewhere.  Let me see if I can find the source...

Bohica

[Toad]

I'm thinking that if they re-design the armor as they should, then armored GV's are going to be real tough.

They may have to re-design bomb damage/blast radius as well.