Author Topic: Anyone have a clue why the Ta152 is perked? (Read 754 times)

Sundog · « **Reply #30 on:** March 17, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »

Based on this thread, I guess the real question isn't why is the Ta-152H perked (It's obvious). The real question should be, 'Why are the bases all so close that many people won't fly higher then 20k', 13th TAS notwithstanding.

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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs
MAG-33

'Criticism is always easier than craftmanship.'

Reschke · « **Reply #31 on:** March 17, 2001, 08:25:00 PM »

Funny you mention that Sundog. The current argument in Fighter Ace is something along the same lines although they still want to have "instant action in the Territorial Arenas" I myself like the 25 miles or so between the bases in AH. The action is still somewhat close but it does give you the option to get high altitude. It just depends on if you want to take it or not.

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ObstLt. Reschke
2/LJK Staffelkapitan
Kommandeur Jagdbomber
www.luftjagerkorps.com

Suave1 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 17, 2001, 09:40:00 PM »

One reason is that most planes have a very limited effective range due to current ma fuel burn settings .

Jigster · « **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2001, 11:27:00 PM »

Perk the D9, unperk the Ta152. Problem solved.

Nath-BDP · « **Reply #34 on:** March 17, 2001, 11:31:00 PM »

Stab and III./JG 301 was equipped solely with the 152, maybe not at full strength, but thats all they operated. Thus, a whole group was equipped with it.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 03-17-2001).]

hazed- · « **Reply #35 on:** March 17, 2001, 11:46:00 PM »

perk the d9? no way!

Finally we LW get a plane to catch the damn runstangs and you want it perked?
Ive had to fly countless tours flying the 190's at a disadvantage to p51's etc.
I want to enjoy this turn around if you dont mind!

hazed

J_A_B · « **Reply #36 on:** March 18, 2001, 12:32:00 AM »

Perk the D-9

GOD NO!

Then all the runner dorks would fly the Pony again!

J_A_B

Reschke · « **Reply #37 on:** March 18, 2001, 02:05:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Stab and III./JG 301 was equipped solely with the 152, maybe not at full strength, but thats all they operated. Thus, a whole group was equipped with it.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 03-17-2001).]

Wrong Nath. III./JG301 was not fully equipped with it. The whole of JG301 maybe only received about 20 Ta-152's. The reason being is like what I explained earlier. A large number of them were destroyed on the ground waiting on a time to be ferried to the operational units. Therefore you can not say that an entire Gruppe was equipped. Not even in a remote fashion since the numbers would indicate at best it was never used in more than Staffel strength of 12-16 aircraft at any one time.

I found this link which has the numbers of the Ta-152's that were assigned to JG301. http://www.ww2.dk/articles/elflr1.html

There are two tables I have been looking at on this site while translating it. One of them deals with what I believe is the 9th Fliegerkorps. Under that heading is another break down to the 1st Jagddivision which has Stab/JG301 in its chain of command. In this part of the tables the man lists 4 Ta-152's as "Soll" (I believe that is meaning obligated or promised) with 2 being shown on the books and those same two being functional. For the pilot allotment in the next part of the table reading left to right it shows a note on the number of pilots that were available as obligated and ready being 3 with 2 always standing by. I will write more here in a few minutes as I finish banging my head for needing to learn German to communicate with my bosses in Germany. And so I could accurately communicate what the author of this page is wanting to say.

In the above link I have figured out that "Soll" in German means "Debit, Liability, Obligation" so they were supposed to have received 16 for the Stabschwarm and 52 for III./JG301 BUT they only received 7 for the Stabschwarm and 5 for III./JG301. So how does that translate into a full Gruppe Nath? A total of 13 planes for a staff flight and for the 3rd gruppe together does not even come close to anything over staffel strength. This also corresponds to the word "Besatzung" which I believe means people assigned to the post, loosely translated. I take "Flgz." to mean Flugzeug for aircraft as well.

OK here is some more information I have found. This data does not follow the same as what I posted earlier for the aircraft being assigned. I have emailed the guy to get him to send me his sources for the data. That way I can hopefully figure out why it shows Fw-190A-9 in several place for assignment in 12/44.

Here are the JG301 aircraft assignment sheets I have found online as linked through the site listed above:

This one is for Stab/JG301: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg301.html

This one is for I./JG301: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bijg301.html

This one is for II./JG301: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biijg301.html

This one is for III./JG301: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biiijg301.html

This one is for IV./JG301: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bivjg301.html

This one is for 10./JG301: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/b10jg301.html

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ObstLt. Reschke
2/LJK Staffelkapitan
Kommandeur Jagdbomber www.luftjagerkorps.com

[This message has been edited by Reschke (edited 03-18-2001).]

Nath-BDP · « **Reply #38 on:** March 18, 2001, 02:08:00 AM »

Didn't say fully equipped, I said soley.

Not many Jagdgeschwaders were operating Jagdgruppes with 35-40 aircraft in March '45.

But they were still referred to as Jagdgruppes.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 03-18-2001).]

Reschke · « **Reply #39 on:** March 18, 2001, 02:20:00 AM »

Neither were they "soley" equipped either. After looking back at the information I posted I would think that III./JG301 would have operated with close to full Staffel compliment for its 4 Staffels. Check the last part of the III./JG301 aircraft assignments that show delivery in 12/44. They received 37 Fw-190's then right before they took delivery of the few Ta-152's they got. This would put them at close to full Staffel strength for the time in December of 1944 and on into January 1945. For how long I am not sure as I would have to check units records and aircraft losses. But that is pretty easily done with the right contacts. Anyway what I am trying to say is that no where was any one staffel or even gruppe for that matter equipped with more than 2 Schwarme of Ta-152. That goes for Gallands baby project in JV44; "The Platzschutzstaffel" or "Papagei Staffel (I think the word Papgei means parrot for the bright colors it has)" for the colors they had to paint on the underside of their planes so their own anti-aircraft gunners would not shoot them down. In fact most of his prop fighters for that one were Fw-190D-9's with a single example of a Fw-190D-11.

Not trying to argue or flame m8, just trying to make sure the right information stays in the minds of people so they can make their own decision about why the plane is perked.

CYA in the MA!

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ObstLt. Reschke
2/LJK Staffelkapitan
Kommandeur Jagdbomber www.luftjagerkorps.com

[This message has been edited by Reschke (edited 03-18-2001).]

mrfish · « **Reply #40 on:** March 18, 2001, 04:43:00 AM »

perk the g-10? lol good grief

yeah it goes fast but it takes about 8 million miles to turn if at all at that speed - in it or any 109. and even then the guns dont work until you are less than 400 max - more like 2-300 avg. perk the la-7 if ya wanna perk something

maik · « **Reply #41 on:** March 18, 2001, 06:42:00 AM »

They won't listen Nath

Maik

Nath-BDP · « **Reply #42 on:** March 18, 2001, 12:26:00 PM »

Ah, you are missing the point.

Quote

For how long I am not sure as I would have to check units records and aircraft losses. But that is pretty easily done with the right contacts.

Do this please.

Voss · « **Reply #43 on:** March 18, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

For whatever reason, fscott, we still don't have all of the information relevant to the perk system in AH. Until, the game is a little further along, we probably won't, either. However, the 152 is an awesome ride. If, people ever start flying these planes where they belong (the 13th TAS DOES NOT fly above 30k, for instance; hell, not even 20k for the most part) then the reason the 152 is perked will become obvious, IMO.

I have been waiting to see a *smart* buff group request escort. So far, most of the formations I have seen have been below 20k. Above 30k the 152 is the only plane that can manuever with a B-17. I know, because I have flown a 17 deep into enemy territory, and turned about on P-38's and 109's around 33k. They all stall and drop like stones. Not the 152, though!

I would like to set up a scenario where Fortresses are escorted by 38's, 47's, and 51's deep into enemy territory. It would be great if we could have Bf-109's, 110's, 410's and Ta-152's intercept. That would be an engagement worth remembering!

LW GUYS: Are those air-to-air rockets functional yet?

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Voss
13th TAS

fscott · « **Reply #44 on:** March 18, 2001, 02:36:00 PM »

Voss, do not judge a plane for use in AH as to how it performed in WW2. Above 30k is virtually impractical. There's only one reason to operate at that alt, and that is to either escort buffs, or intercept buffs. Yet neither of these things happen very often, since taking an airfield can be done just as quickly, and even more efficiently by use of several buffs at low to medium alt.

And when you engage a Ta152 at 30k, guess what people will do, dive for lower alts. Heck, why spend your time at 30k fighting a 152 anyway?

fscott