Author Topic: War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq  (Read 1233 times)

Offline Thrawn

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2002, 12:16:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
want freedom from saddam? ask the kurds in the north, ask the shiite moslems in the south of iraq.


Those are some Iraqi people.  I wondered if anyone had stats.  Have they ever been obtained?

PS: I've changed my mind about the Iraq thing.

The way I see it the second Iraq broke the cease-fire treaty with the UN, every member that supported the cease-fire should have gone in and dismantaled the Iraqi government.

Why is Bush going to war?  WMD?  Oil?  Approval rating?  Finish Daddy's War?  I don't imagine we'll ever know.  
« Last Edit: September 15, 2002, 12:21:37 PM by Thrawn »

Offline Kieran

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2002, 01:27:57 PM »
Thrawn, I'm inclined to believe it is a little of everything you mentioned and more we don't know. It's foolish to believe it is merely a conspiracy to get the oil.

Offline 10Bears

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2002, 02:23:32 PM »
Well here's a list of 35 questions Congressman Ron Paul would like answered..

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002.htm

Perhaps some of you can take a stab at it

27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won’t have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?

29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?


snip
« Last Edit: September 15, 2002, 02:30:18 PM by 10Bears »

Offline Thrawn

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2002, 02:29:12 PM »
10bears, do you think the the US should go to war with Iraq?

Offline 10Bears

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2002, 03:09:38 PM »
No..
Thrawn, I’m a Free Trader Capitalist so my views are a bit radical. I believe the U.S. and international community should lift sanctions on everybody.  Cuba, N. Korea Libya, Iran, Iraq The whole kitten kabutual. It makes bad business sense.

I also believe war is a group think form of mental illness. To use war as the first option is well--- madness. And being an American, we have a Constitution that forbids war except in case of self defense. The framers didn’t mean a threat down the road they meant self defense as in the enemy is already approaching our shores. Also, we have three separate branches of government that form the foundations of Democracy. These are the checks and balances so that one branch does not usurp the other two. Congress is not merely “consulted” regarding war, they have a duty to either vote for a declaration or a vote to support the Executive branch otherwise what do you have?... It sure ain’t Democracy.

In the past we American’s have gone to war for noble purposes. We may die so others may walk free. This is the spin the government is  trying to pass off to the masses in the case of Iraq. It’s simply not true as the Washington Post article points out and other articles I’ve read. The President intends to plunder another countries natural resources. He intends to use said natural resources as a blackmail bargaining chip to get other countries support. He doesn’t care in the least how many innocent civilians have to die in bombing raids or for that matter how many working class families have to loose their sons in house to house street to street combat.

That my friend is the most un-noble dishonorable, and un-American reasons of all.

Offline Thrawn

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2002, 03:31:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
No..
Thrawn, I’m a Free Trader Capitalist


Who would have thunk it?

Quote
And being an American, we have a Constitution that forbids war except in case of self defense. The framers didn’t mean a threat down the road they meant self defense as in the enemy is already approaching our shores.


I did not know that.  I take this to mean that you also don't believe that we should have gone to war against Iraq in 91,  is this correct? Did your congress delcare war against Iraq before the Gulf War?

Offline john9001

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2002, 03:44:32 PM »
27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

ANSW>why does 10bear think oil is bad? how much oil does hawaii produce? i want a oil embargo on hawaii,


28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won’t have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals

ANSW>that is a gross generalization that will not stand the test of history


29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

ANSW>the "moral argument" is the people of Iraq deserve a better life than they have under saddam


30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?

ANSW>just read the constitution again , only reference to "war" is in ARTICLE 1,Section 8, (powers of congress)line 11, it only says congress has powers to declare war, says nothing about 'self-defense"

44MAG
barbarian knight
« Last Edit: September 15, 2002, 03:47:30 PM by john9001 »

Offline Kieran

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2002, 03:45:32 PM »
Quote
27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?


What do the oil companies have to do with the discussion, besides your continued insistance they control the government? Of course they want the oil. That has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not Iraq poses a threat not only to the U.S., but U.S. allies (Israel), thereby upsetting the precarious peace that exists in the Middle East. As you say, war is bad for business.

Quote
28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won’t have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?


That is a rhetorical question. I might ask you why it is those that possess none of the intelligence gathered by various agencies are quick to judge action is not necessary.

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29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?


Refer to the answer to question #27. If our allies are pulled into war, we are pulled into war. WWI started precisely this way.

Quote
30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?


"Provide for the common welfare"? Aside from that, there are times to be reactive, and times to be proactive.

Offline Thrawn

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2002, 03:52:58 PM »
"why does 10bear think oil is bad? how much oil does hawaii produce? i want a oil embargo on hawaii, "

Are you a soldier?  Do you think that American soldiers should die for cheaper gas?


"the "moral argument" is the people of Iraq deserve a better life than they have under saddam"

Who are you to speak for the people of Iraq?  Do you have any stats on what the people of Iraq think of Saddam?

Offline john9001

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2002, 04:02:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
[B"are you a soldier?  Do you think that American soldiers should die for cheaper gas?


Who are you to speak for the people of Iraq?  Do you have any stats on what the people of Iraq think of Saddam? [/B]




i think the photos of dead kurdish babies that saddam gassed speak for me and the people of Iraq, and yes i was in the U.S. Marines

44MAG

Offline Thrawn

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2002, 04:16:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
i think the photos of dead kurdish babies that saddam gassed speak for me and the people of Iraq,


No it doesn't.  What if the majority of the people of Iraq don't give a flying fig about the kurds?

Quote
and yes i was in the U.S. Marines


That wasn't the question I asked.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2002, 04:26:37 PM by Thrawn »

Offline john9001

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2002, 04:24:25 PM »
i give you facts , you give me "what if's" this flame war is over , i hold the moral high ground

44MAG

Offline 10Bears

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2002, 04:36:33 PM »
John you being from Flora-Do'h doesn't put you in much of a position to put down other states :D No offense

Offline Innominate

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2002, 07:23:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn


No it doesn't. What if the majority of the people of Iraq don't give a flying fig about the kurds?
 


Then they're just as bad as thier ruler.  In ww2, the germans didnt give "a flying fig" about the jews being exterminated,  does that mean that it's not worth doing anything about it?

Offline Toad

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War Could Unshackle Oil in Iraq
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2002, 09:11:21 PM »
c'mon 10... aren't you going to tell me what I think about Iraq?

After all, you started this thread invoking my name.

Tell me what you've garnered about my view of war with Iraq from what I've posted on the subject. Please do throw in a few quotes to support your assumption.

Thx!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!