My DUmb Question Re: Attack Mode

[Turbot]

Why was attack mode created?  Or was it always this way?

[fffreeze220]

eh ?
U speak in miracles

[MRPLUTO]

Attack mode was created so that pilots could fly ground attack missions, which have a high mortality rate, and not mess up their Kill/death ratio as fighter pilots.

That's why.

MRPLUTO  VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~  MAG-33

[AtmkRstr]

Attack mode was created so that scoremongers wouldn't have to taint their air to air score with their air to ground score.

Unfortunatly, since there's people who up planes without looking out the tower window to see that the field is capped (the real cause of the vultching "issue"), neither score means much.

Let's rant about Vultchees!
(not vultchers)

[Turbot]

Am I correct then, that when you take a Hvy 38 and bomb a strat otw to some action - none of this scores?  I think this is the case, as I gave that scenario a try the beginning of this camp.  I took out an entire Flak factory with a P38 but after rtb saw no points.

If this is the way it is, this is shameful.  All that work for nothing.

[Voss]

It has nothing to do with screwing up your fighter standings.

See, living is meaningless. In fact, if you spend the time flying back to base your wasting time you could be spending killing people. Kills per time is a very important category for fighter, attack, and vehicle ranks. Your gunnery can be higher, but if somone kills more frequently then you, they will have a better rank.

In attack, your bullets count when you hit any kind of target. They count towards gunnery that is. Bombs, in attack mode, are counted for accuracy. Dumping your eggs before you get to target, will degrade your accuracy.

In fighter mode the only thing ammo is counted for is hitting enemy aircraft. I think it may count on enemy vehicles, but I'm not really sure there. I don't shoot at GV's in fighter mode, unless it's mandatory. Bombs in fighter mode are meaningless, and ground kills are not counted as fighter kills.

Now, if you don't care about rank, just kill stuff. However, it's not too hard to just press the right slot button (Fighter/Attack) before you launch. You know if you are carrying eggs, or rockets, that it will probably be an attack sortie.

The perks you earn in attack mode are counted as fighter perks.

BTW, that 28 kill anti-GV attack sortie I had the other night earned me 76 perks, and took only 30 minutes (probably less). Only six of them were kills earned with eggs.

By definition any anti-GV Attack sortie could be considered a vultch, but you have to remember those Ostwind's can shoot back, and so can the M-16's. Even the lowly M-8 and M-3's can kill your radiator, or knock a wing off if you give them half the chance.

Do you think a pilot that's out to survive would even think about trying this? Ergo: Attack. My favorite category.

[Reschke]

Originally posted by Voss
Do you think a pilot that's out to survive would even think about trying this? Ergo: Attack. My favorite category.
 

I guess I need to find a new flight category then.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Turbot
Am I correct then, that when you take a Hvy 38 and bomb a strat otw to some action - none of this scores?  I think this is the case, as I gave that scenario a try the beginning of this camp.  I took out an entire Flak factory with a P38 but after rtb saw no points.

If this is the way it is, this is shameful.  All that work for nothing.

Yep.. If you don't score as 'Attack' you don't get any points for hitting ground targets. I hate that setup. Many of my flights involve hauling full ords to target, dropping on strat stuff and then patrolling to kill enemy fighters. very upsetting that you can't get scores for A-t-G in Fighter mode, but you can get scores for A-t-A in Attack mode.

[Zippatuh]

I don’t understand why it couldn’t automatically be scored as an attack sortie whenever you select ground ordinance and fighter when no extra ordinance selected.  Keep the manual selection for the cannon users out there.

[Midnight]

I don't want automatic selection of Attack or Fighter

My primary goal is to go shoot other planes down, but I like to bring ords to drop on stuff while I am on the way.

I should be able to attack field targets and then continue my flight shooting down aircraft.

All A-t-A kills should be scored to fighter

All A-t-G kills should be scored to attack

all deaths should be scored in one category, regardless of how you were flying your plane. Come to think of it, that's probably why we get so many suicide JaBo dweebs. They can score as 'attack' go in to pork a field while lawn-darting, then respawn scoring as 'fighter' with no adverse effects to their fighter scores. <--- That is a "come on and game the game" invitation if I ever saw one.

Make all fighter A/C socres into one category!!!!

[Wotan]

Well it was that way. Folks requested that it be scored seperate, quite a few folks to.

I forget all the time whether I am in attack or fighter but I like the way it is. It much easier to track how your doing in each category. Strafing building and gvs effects you hit percentage while in fighters. It can do 2 things, boost your hit% rank, or hurt it.

GVs are so easy to kill we ought not even count umm.

Anyway whatever ht does is fine by me. But I got np with the way it is.

[Midnight]

I remember that explination from before. It does make sense, but I always forget it becuase I think it's all about gaming the game.

I think scoring would be much better off with less variables in it, but no matter how they are set up, someone will find a way to game the system to artifically inflate their ranks and socres.

[Shiva]

I don't want automatic selection of Attack or Fighter

My primary goal is to go shoot other planes down, but I like to bring ords to drop on stuff while I am on the way.

I should be able to attack field targets and then continue my flight shooting down aircraft.

All A-t-A kills should be scored to fighter

All A-t-G kills should be scored to attack

I would suggest a more mechanistic solution.

1) Aircraft are divided into fighters, bombers, and attack planes. Scoring and perk collection/expenditure for bombers and attack planes automatically go under 'bomber' and 'attack'. Fighters can score and earn/spend perks under either 'fighter' or 'attack'.

2) Fighters get a button in the hangar to opt to score their entire flight as 'attack'. This button resets to OFF when you go to the hangar.

3) Kills made while carrying external ordnance are scored as 'attack', as are any ground targets destroyed, regardless of whether ordnance or guns are used. Kills made while not carrying external ordnance are scored as 'fighter', unless the flight was designated as an attack flight, in which case all kills are scored as 'attack'.

4) The cost for perked fighters is taken from the 'Attack' perk total if the button to select an attack flight is clicked.

5) If a perked fighter is 'paid' for with Attack perks, no perk points are earned if the pilot makes any air-to-air kills but does not destroy any ground targets, regardless of how many air-to-air kills they get that flight.

Yes, I know that number 5 is a hack, but there should be some disincentive to jaboing for perks and then using the jabo perks for fighter missions. Although having any AtA kills from dedicated-attack flights going into a separate scoring pile for attack-paid perked fighters would be a disincentive to using attack perks to pay for fighter rides; I don't know if it would be enough, though.

[Voss]

Originally posted by Shiva
5) If a perked fighter is 'paid' for with Attack perks, no perk points are earned if the pilot makes any air-to-air kills but does not destroy any ground targets, regardless of how many air-to-air kills they get that flight.

Fighters are fighters, regardless of whether they are used in attack category. The fighter category already carries more weight in calculating overall rank, than does attack, so penalizing people for killing ground vehicles is goofy. Besides, the only perk attack aircraft worth their salt is the F4-U4, the Spit 14, and the Tempest.

Why should it matter how the perks were earned? The point of perks is reward for action and success not common to the whole. That's why you get good perks for killing an Ostwind, slightly less for Panzer, but few for an M3, and the less likelihood of success, the better the perks.

If, you follow your train of thought through, you would have to penalize the ground vehicles for killing a plane that hasn't egged anything, was paid for with attack points, and yet tried to shoot up their GV.

However, if this were followed through, the one penalty I could see would be in tracking attack perks just so you could deny them being used on the one perk plane without an attack slot; the Me-262; or perhaps in rewarding success in the A-20 only in bomber perks, regardless of its attack slot.

The one thing I'd hate to see happen is guys that don't fly attack setting forth rules to undermine those that do. I believe that if there is a problem with the way attack sorties are scored/rewarded that it will become evident and the attack guys themselves will voice concerns.

[Turbot]

I dunno, but it doesn't sit right with me - and I am going to guess many new players - that when you do a good job you get penalty.

I destroyed freakin Training base with a couple of jabos (how it got off attck mode I have no clue), did a beautiful job of it to was using short burst making sure every round hit, and my fighter rank went down by 200 positions because those rounds were counted as missed.

This sort of thing makes people not happy, perhaps even angry.