Why have 4 varients of the Bf109?

[Urchin]

Seems to be a waste of resources to me, honestly.  Of the 4, only 2 have any qualities that make them "useful" in the MA.

109F4- Slower than a SpitIX, best turning 109 (which isn't saying a whole lot, sort of like saying that a 600 pound man is 'slender' because he is standing next to a 900 pound man).  Armnament is clearly inferior to the Spit's, even with gondolas.

109G2- this one actually has some good qualities, in my opinion.  It is the second fastest 109, and the second best turner.  You can fly this plane and have some success in the MA.

109G6- Why?  Turns worse than a G2.. and is slower than a G2.  You get machineguns with marginally more power.  Why is this in the game?

109G10- Have to keep this one, it is the only one that has a decent shot at returning to base.  Fastest and best climbing 109, plus you can load a 30mm cannon, which just about brings you to parity with a Spit for firepower.

Why are the 109F4 and the 109G6 even IN the game?  Why not replace them with something that would have a point?  Wouldn't even have to be a German airplane, just one that wouldn't be a deathtrap when you got in it.

[ 09-29-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

[capt. apathy]

what would be gained by removing these planes?
FM's are complete. sure we want more planes, hell we want every plane. but i see nothing to be gained by getting read of any planes we already have

[Staga]

Why Not ?
Why Spit V is in the game? La-5? P-51B?

For A)Versatility and B)Scenarios C)Easy to model from basic frame.

[GRUNHERZ]

Ur nuts Urchin, the 109G6 is the best fighter in AH.....

[Tac]

109's are tasty. I like my 4 flavours.

[Dead Man Flying]

The four varients are sufficiently different from one another so as to provide unique flying experiences.  Why does it matter how they stack up to other planes?  Some people like Ferraris, some like classic Ford Model Ts, and others prefer trucks or motorcycles.  Not everyone desires the best-turning, fastest, hardest-hitting plane in the game; variety improves AH.

Plus, they're useful for historical scenarios.

-- Todd/DMF

[ 09-29-2001: Message edited by: Dead Man Flying ]

[eskimo2]

I bet it only takes a small fraction of the effort, time and cost to build a variant once a model has been produced.  Change the skin, and some of the aspects of the FM, presto - new plane!  The 109 was the most mass produced fighter ever and its variants differed greatly in their capabilities.
I love the 109s and fly them all.
IMHO, an E and K model need to be added.

eskimo

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Staga:
Why Not ?
Why Spit V is in the game? La-5? P-51B?

For A)Versatility and B)Scenarios C)Easy to model from basic frame.

Spit V can turn.  It is the second best turning aircraft in the game, and I believe it is faster than the Zero is as well.  La-5 is a very good plane, I guess the only reason they added the La-7 was because it was considered to "early" in the war to be representative of the Soviet Air Force.  The La-5 is fast, and it turns pretty well.

P-51B?  Good question.  Thats another plane that I look at and go "why?".  The D is faster, has better visibility, and more firepower.  I think the B turns marginally better, but you can't use that to 'surprise' someone, since the two planes have totally different paint schemes.  

The 109F4 enjoys none of the advantages of turn-fighters, and in return gets.... none of the advantages that speed provides.  Same deal with the 109G6, in my opinion.  

I understand having 3 varients of the 190, because they handle differently and do different things (except for the F version.. have to go 'WHY?' again on that one).  But having a slow version of the 109 just doesn't make sense to me.  I suppose it was added for scenarios, which makes sense since it obviously wasn't added to be competitive in the Main Arena.  I feel the same way about the c202... that one just blows my mind.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by eskimo2:
I bet it only takes a small fraction of the effort, time and cost to build a variant once a model has been produced.  Change the skin, and some of the aspects of the FM, presto - new plane!  The 109 was the most mass produced fighter ever and its variants differed greatly in their capabilities.
I love the 109s and fly them all.
IMHO, an E and K model need to be added.

eskimo

I would want the K model, because I've heard that it rolled better than the G model did.  The E model would be pointless, not to mention useless, in the Main Arena.  Furthermore, unless we get Hurricanes and Spitfires armed with only the .303s, it would be pointless, useless, and worthless in scenarios.

[Buzzbait]

S! Urchin

Some of us have a preference for Scenarios with the actual historical matchups.

The Hurricane IIC is not going to be a World Beater, but it does have its place in a '41-'42 scenario set in NW Europe or the Med.

Same with all the various models of the 109's.

It is interesting to see and experience flying the different models.  Then you can live the ebb and flow of technical superiority.  

For example in '41, the 109F4 was a dominant aircraft.  In '43, the G6 was considerably less so, in fact didn't shape up too well to its opposition.  In '44 the G10 began to regain the lost ground and to supersede the Allied fighters it was matched against.

I think this is what we miss in the MA.  It's always the same plane matchups, no real variety.

[AN]

I want the 'E'!

And a Spit I and a Hurri I to go with it.  Not to mention a Stuka!

anRky

[mrfish]

i didn't choose to fly the g2 because it's "the bestest", i chose i because i like it for historical reasons - i imagine people that prefer the other 109s do the same.

it's not just performance that makes people fly one plane or another, there are a host of other reasons. i just deal with getting whomped a lot by faster better turners  

[Karnak]

Urchin,

If the Spitfire MkV were removed the Spitfire MkIX would be the 2nd best turn aircrat in the game. That isn't a functional change.

The Spitfire MkV stacks up to the Spitfire MkIX in exactly the same way that the Bf109F-4 stacks up to the Bf109G-2.

AH 1.00 had 4 Bf109s, none have been added since. The biggest reason, I think, is due to the ease of creating new versions of an existing airframe.

What would you have liked to have seen added at that time instead?

The aircraft available in 1.00 were:

B-17G
B-26B
Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Bf109G-6, Bf109G-10
C.205
C-47A
F4U-1C, F4U-1D
Fw190A-8
La-5FN
N1K2-J
P-51D
Spitfire MkIX

Using those airframes, what would you have rather seen than the Bf109F-4 and Bf109G-6?

[Fester']

I love the bf109f4 and g6.

I hate the g2

[R4M]

Bf109F4 . Turns like a dream (in the CT, first week, I was able to turn with a Spitfire V. The Spit turns closer, the 109 faster. With the current planeset the 109F4 is one of the bests TnBers around). Accelerates very well, Climbs very well is JUST A TAD SLOWER THAN A G2 (yeah right ,take a glance to the speed charts and you'll notice that the F4 is even as fast at certain altitudes). And it is HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT.


Bf109G2: Worse turner than F4. A bit faster than F4,but with a little difference. Accelerates and climbs quite comparable. Is  better at very high altitude. But IMO the loss of turnrate is not worth the minimal gain in speed and the very high altitude performances of the plane. But it is painted in finnish markings, and it also honors the HISTORIC role of the 109G2s.


Bf109G6: Is a terrible aircraft IMO, the worse of the 109s (and by far). Turns worse than the 109G10 (maybe turns a tad closer, but believe me that the G10 has better sustained turnrate), is slower than the 109G2. But hell, it has 30mm and 13mm.

And is as simple as that you CANT leave out of the planeset the MOST BUILT 109 SERIES OF THE WAR.

109G10 - Far from being the 2000hp "monster" they are selling to us, I think that this is a 1800hp-engined 109 wich is taking the place it should take the 109G14.

We lack an emil  

We lack a K4 (the 109G10 is FAR FROM being the performer the K4 was -and the K4 was lighter and had WAY BETTER controls).

IMHO the only 109 wich could be out of place in AH is the 109G10. So if you want to get rid of it, and replace it with a G14, bringing an E-4 and a REAL K4 too, then I wont discuss the wisdom of that recomendation   .

But never erase the 109F4 nor the G6.

BTW urchin I am quite sure you dont fly 109F4 too much   Because is a REAL beauty.

BTW I would guess that you would throw the Fw190A8 too, isnt it? the D9 is better BnZ-er, the A5 is better E-fighter. Why to have the cumbersome, clumsy turning and relatively (in this planeset)slow Fw190A8?...

Because it has its place in this planeset. Because it was the most used 190A8 in Real life. And hell, because if you dont want it, I AM AS SURE AS HELL THAT I DO   - and same goes for the 109s.


Why to design a  P47D25 and D30?. Throw the D25, is worse jabo!!! and to fight you have the D11 isnt it?.

The D25 has also the right to be in AH. And is GREAT to have it, even if ppl dont fly it much.

Why to have a C202?...hell it has peashooters!!!!. We have the C205, so why have a C202?...

Because it was one of the most used italian fighters in WWII, thats why.

Why to have a P51B?...the P51D is faster under 20k and has 2 MGs more!!!!

Because the P51B was the mustang wich WON the battle over europe, breaking the LW's backs, way before the P51D was there.


Why to have a Spit V, or a Spit I?...the IX and XIV were WAY better!!!! throw them!!!.

No, sir, both deserve a place here...as the Hurri I, the Emil, the A6M2, the F4F, the...

 

[ 09-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]