I'm liking Russia more and more

[Nash]

do you think our government should do this kinda thing- burying moslems pigskin mean? - mrfish

Hhmm... Good question. I was all for the Russians doing it, but now that you ask...

I guess I would find the idea of my government actually wrapping people up in pigskin and burrying them to be kinda silly.

I dunno... you've got me in a bit of a conflict. I like the idea of the Russians doing it, but would be kinda dissapointed if my government did. I don't even know why.

[fd ski]

Originally posted by Toad
Calling Boroda.. come in Boroda... Boroda come in!

Boroda, obviously there's some other folks besides myself that haven't had the benefit of your enlightened history books.

Please straighten these guys out, much as you've tried to help poor misinformed old me.

I mean, there's guys in here that actually think Russia was unkind to the Chechens! Can you believe that????????

You know Toad, if boroda posted equivalent of your "they brought it on themselves" 1 week following Sept 11 2001, you'd break your fingers typing up your indignation....

[Toad]

Nah.

I'd just consider the source and ignore it.

He's the guy that maintains there was no Katyn Forest massacre by the Soviets, after all. Gorbachev lied. Yeah, right.

Like I said, you'd have to consider the source.

[mrfish]

well it doesn't surprise me that the russians would do such a thing afterall they're a really vulgar people.

but to emulate your enemy by doing something childish and vindictive only validates them. not to mention executing the survivors without a trial.  

i'm surprised you patriots would condone such a thing - it doesn't seem very inline with american principles.

my grandpa's generation with their manners in school, yes sir-yes ma'ams, brill cream hair and pressed shirts sure wouldn't have gone there. they would have thought the chechans were acting like animals - they wouldn't have followed suit though.

our beliefs are closer to the WWE than that generation's - shameful.

[Toad]

Originally posted by mrfish
my grandpa's generation with their manners in school, yes sir-yes ma'ams, brill cream hair and pressed shirts sure wouldn't have gone there. they would have thought the chechans were acting like animals - they wouldn't have followed suit though.

our beliefs are closer to the WWE than that generation's - shameful.

Are you talking about the WW2 generation?

If so, they indeed answered "like with like". Talk to some Marine vets from the Pacific campaign.

The Japanese beheaded a 345th BG crew that bailed out near a Japanese occupied village on New Guinea. About two weeks later US troops took the village and found the graves and ID'd the dead.

After that discovery, the 345th routinely strafed Japanese sailors in the water after sinking their ships. This is documented in "Warpath Across the Pacific" I believe.

This is merely one example, too. I think you'll find like was answered with like in just about every theater by every side.

Here's another:

CHENOGNE

"CHENOGNE
(Jan 1, 1945)
In the village of Chenogne, the US 11th Armoured Division had captured around sixty German soldiers. Marched to behind a small hill, out of sight of enemy troops still holding the woods beyond the village, the prisoners were subjected to a volley of machine-gun fire. On this cold and frosty first day of 1945, the GIs were showing no mercy for their unfortunate prisoners as they crumpled to the ground, shot dead in cold blood. With memories of the Malmedy massacre still fresh in their minds, killing had become impersonal, revenge was now uppermost in their minds."

****

Like for like.

Just so you know.










 

[mrfish]

i can only judge that generation from the conversations i've had sitting around with those old guys and getting their take on life.

my grandpa- his 4 brothers and all of my grandma's brothers were all class acts and in a way i'm glad most of them aren't around to see how we think about things these days.

they didn't cut anyone's ears off or do anything morbid during the war - they went to fight tyranny and wouldn't have dreamed of that stuff. they just wanted to do their thing and get back to their farms and families and kids.

those memories are enough for me to judge that generation by, that and their idea of what a free country should think is important, not some history channel episodes.

it doesn't matter to me if you think those acts are permissible, i'm just curious if it's the case for the community - looks like people agree with you anyway.

i think it's deplorable, and considering my shabby moral character, that's really sayin' something.

[Toad]

Originally posted by mrfish
i can only judge that generation from the conversations i've had sitting around with those old guys and getting their take on life.

[/b]

Why limit yourself? There's plenty of documentation of man's inhumanity to man by that generation in WW2. On all sides. Sit down and read the entire list that the previous Chenoge link will bring up.

If you want to belive, based on a few folks in your family, that that kind of stuff didn't happen or was even rare, then you're wearing blinders just like Boroda.

It isn't anything to be proud of but ignoring it or pretending it wasn't so is the worst possible situation.

they didn't cut anyone's ears off or do anything morbid during the war

[/b]

I don't know them and I'm not casting any aspersions but I seriously doubt they told you of their worst experiences.

those memories are enough for me to judge that generation by, that and their idea of what a free country should think is important, not some history channel episodes.

[/b]

It's not the history channel. It's real life. It's what happened. And all sides were guilty. A thing we shouldn't want to forget, IMO.

i think it's deplorable, and considering my shabby moral character, that's really sayin' something.

Particularly when one recalls what you've said about the Israelis, eh?  

Still, wrapping them in pigskin is disrepectful, I agree. I said it most likely would only engender more violence and hostility.

However, it doesn't look like "turning the other cheek" is going to work any better in Chechnya than it does in Palestine. There's going to be some more damn, dirty killing and probably over a lot of years before any of this dies down.

And pigskin or not, that's probably what it will take. Massive amounts of dying over long years until both sides finally give it up as futile.

Just more of man's inhumanity to man... which may be the one constant through ALL the generations.

[BUG_EAF322]

It's sounds very barbarian.
U guys might be glad the USA doesn't do anything stupid like that.

I think there always to stories to tell .

If i had to pick sides offcours i would choose Israel and Russia.
But i'm not in the that situation. So yes i would like to hear both stories.



It's like a prayer without an end just like this BBS.

[Toad]

True or false? No one seems to know.

Pershing the Thought

Claim:   General John J. Pershing effectively discouraged Muslim terrorists in the Philippines by killing them and burying their bodies with pigs.

Status:   Undetermined

Other anecdotal accounts attribute Pershing's success to his merely threatening to do as described:


Col. John J Pershing threatened the mullahs with . . . "splattering of pigs-blood on your houses and families and any who attack us and are killed will be buried in pig-skins." Consequently the mullahs made Pershing an Honorary Chieftan with little if any more trouble in his area of command.
 


Yet another account, from the 1938 book Jungle Patrol, attributes the deed to someone other than Pershing:


It was Colonel Alexander Rodgers of the 6th Cavalry who accomplished by taking advantage of religious prejudice what the bayonets and Krags had been unable to accomplish. Rodgers inaugurated a system of burying all dead juramentados in a common grave with the carcasses of slaughtered pigs. The Mohammedan religion forbids contact with pork; and this relatively simple device resulted in the withdrawal of juramentados to sections not containing a Rodgers.

Other officers took up the principle, adding new refinements to make it additionally unattractive to the Moros. In some sections the Moro juramentado was beheaded after death and the head sewn inside the carcass of a pig. And so the rite of running juramentado, at least semi-religious in character, ceased to be in Sulu. The last cases of this religious mania occurred in the early decades of the century. The juramentados were replaced by the amucks. .. who were simply homicidal maniacs with no religious significance attaching to their acts.

Page is an interesting read, btw. Seems Israelis have been threatening to do the same thing lately.

[J_A_B]

"they didn't cut anyone's ears off or do anything morbid during the war "


Funny you should say that, I gew up listening to how that exact sort of thing happened, being told by someone who saw it with his own eyes.  At least it happened up in Alaska.  Not sure if the strings of ears were from live or dead Japanese though, I never had the stomach to ask.

Another close relative who served on Guadalcanal simply wouldn't talk about his experiences.


Hate was alive and well back in the 1940's....stuff like that just doesn't typically get included in the history books.


J_A_B

[mrfish]

despite toad's usual "filabusterama- hyperlink-o-rama-google-search-o-rama" attempt to bury the point and make this about attrocities during the pacific campaign in the 40's and his deep insight into my family - my question wasn't along those lines at all

those acts in the 40's didn't come down as directives from the executive level of government - i don't think f.d. roosevelt or harry truman woulda said hey dogface joe go cut some jap ears off...

 i am assuming in russia that this act was condoned and perhaps orchestrated and originated by the GOVERNMENT itself as a matter of policy, not the angry acts frontline soldiers.

my question remains:

would you condone your united states government doing the same?

i already know the price of tea in china so spare me...

[Airhead]

As state sponsored, no- but Russia is a State which doesn't have to answer to our standards of civilization. I'm not surprised the Kossaks are doing this at all, given the historical brutality that is Russia.

That being said if the terrorists are so scared of pork why don't we crunch up tons of pork rinds and sprinkle them throught all the trouble spots in the Islamic world? Remember that movie Mars Attacks where they find out that yodeling song causes the Martians' heads to explode and we save the world? You gotta admit it'd be pretty cool if all we had to do was sprinkle ground pork rinds from B-52s and all the Moslems would react like snails sprinkled with salt. It might solve all the world's problems.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by mrfish
do you think our government should do this kinda thing- burying moslems pigskin i mean?

I wouldn't waste the ground space ..

How do they feel about cremation? Ashes spread at the nearest landfill ...

blounder, sorry to hear you side with murderers of women and children whose only crime is riding a bus, shopping or going to a movie

[Staga]

Yeah Eagler, Israel has intelligent artillery shells and missiles which kill only palestinian militants but leave innocent civilians unharmed even if they are in same room.

[Toad]

i'm surprised you patriots would condone such a thing - it doesn't seem very inline with american principles.

my grandpa's generation with their manners in school, yes sir-yes ma'ams, brill cream hair and pressed shirts sure wouldn't have gone there. they would have thought the chechans were acting like animals - they wouldn't have followed suit though.

our beliefs are closer to the WWE than that generation's - shameful.

Now who was it that detoured from

 would you condone your united states government doing the same?[/b]

Who was it that impugned "you patriots"?

Who was apparently very mis-informed about "that generation"?

Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself when I see folks that are so obviously mistaken.

And you started the detour from the thread. If that's what you wanted to know, all you had to do was leave out the slam against "patriots" and stow the mistaken evaluation of that generation's moral standards and just ask your question.

And, if you check my first post, you should have already deciphered my answer to that question.

That act would be very much "inline with American principles" as expressed and acted upon by the generation you revere.

Further, it's quite possible that this EXACT thing was done by Americans in the Phillipines vs the Moros. Or did you miss that in my filerbusterama? And THAT generation of Americans was supposedly even more "manners in school, yes sir-yes ma'ams, brill cream hair and pressed shirts" than your grandpa's.

Buh-bye.