Those English have some pretty sharp instruments!

[Toad]

House of Commons - Homicide Statistics '97

Notable quotes:

Summary of main points

Homicide in England and Wales includes the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide. In 1997, 738 deaths were initially recorded as homicide. This was a 9% rise from 1996, exceeded this century only by 753 in 1995. Around 15% of homicides as recorded by the police are generally reclassified as other offences following police and court action.......

In 1997 around 8% of homicides involved firearms and almost one third a sharp weapon[/u]. Firearm use in homicide has fallen over the past few years, in common with firearm use in other offences......

While the most common method of killing in 1997 was with a sharp instrument (just under a third of offences)[/u], nine per cent of the 650 homicide victims currently recorded for England and Wales in 1997 were shot.

Now it seems a bit funny to me that there's no full tilt drive on to register/license/ban/confiscate sharp weapons in England and Wales. After all, as Brother Beetle has been quick to repetitively state even one life lost is enough to justify any sort action to stop the slaughter.

9% of homicides in England and Wales by firearm and something just under 33% of homicides by sharp instruments? Where is the concern? Where is the empathy? Where is the outrage? Can they just ignore this carnage?

Who knows WHO is carrying a sharp instrument out there? Why, your very next door neighbor could have a razor!

Clearly, the threat of homicide death from sharp instruments is something on the order of THREE TIMES as great as that from firearms. This from official sources.

And it gets WORSE!

Scottish homicide rate soars

The number of killings in Scotland has soared by almost a quarter, according to new figures (2000)....
 
The statistics showed an upsurge in homicides caused by knives or other sharp instruments - and an equal increase in the number of men dying....

It also emerged that more than half the deaths were due to knives or sharp instruments, with the figure rising from 44 to 66.

How can they continue to ignore the obvious? Sharp instruments are a FAR, FAR greater threat to the public than firearms. SOMETHING MUST be done!

Of course, we must show the comparison to the US.



US death rate (or % of homicides) by knives is far, far below that of England, Wales or Scotland.

Won't you join the "Ban the Butter Knife" Movement? Please send your E-Mails of support to the Home Office.

Afterall, it's not the Criminal........ it's the inanimate object!

Thank you!

[Octavius]

 

[lazs2]

besides.... knives give me the creeps.
lazs

"Homicide in England and Wales includes the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide. In 1997, 738 deaths were initially recorded as homicide. This was a 9% rise from 1996, exceeded this century only by 753 in 1995. Around 15% of homicides as recorded by the police are generally reclassified as other offences following police and court action.......

In 1997 around 8% of homicides involved firearms and almost one third a sharp weapon. Firearm use in homicide has fallen over the past few years, in common with firearm use in other offences......

While the most common method of killing in 1997 was with a sharp instrument (just under a third of offences), nine per cent of the 650 homicide victims currently recorded for England and Wales in 1997 were shot."

[bounder]

hmm we may have some sharp instruments over here,

indeed, it seems they have the monopoly on blunt tools on the other side of the pond.

after reading toads post, i could immediately see how right he was and that we must ban all sharp things now.The next day was a disaster.

08:30
Slice bread with my Sig P225. It's a bit messy, but i ended up with some serviceable results, and we finally got the ventilation we need for our very humid kitchen

10:00
Went to work as usual, but I was sent home at lunchtime for blasting customers with birdshot and fish entrails. I guess the Spas15 isn't really designed for gutting haddock.

13:00
I tried to spread nutella onto my crumpets with derringer but it ended up all over my hands, and now the pistol is going to have to go in the dishwasher.

Cored an apple with my Stechkin, and scraped the pulp of the ceiling (with My Sig) for a really nice sandwich. ( I caved and cut the bread with a knife )


14:30
Went out to the garden and pruned my roses with my GE minigun. Deadheading has never been so much fun, but unfortunately my neighbours are gonna press charges for massacring their chickens.

17:50
Parcel arrived at dinnertime, heavily taped up. Time for the trusty miniUzi. I wonder what was in it, there sure were a lot of feathers.

22:00
I manage to blow my foot off cutting my toenails. Probably should have used a .22 not .44

That's what I like about guns, they have so many uses, like shooting holes in people, cutting bread, slicing suasage, cutting cake, keyhole surgery, woodcarving, and of course fencing.

[lazs2]

private pleasure aviation is pretty useless too... as is swimming and hiking...  any nut could crash a private plane into a school and kill dozens maybe hundreds of children... why not be proactive and stop it while you can?   I mean... do it for the children..   swimming and hiking.... far more killed than even blunt instruments and so..... needlessly... get your nannies at the home office"  (just writing home office cracks me up for some reason) to ban hiking and swimming and private aviation... do it for the children.

Or... wait... maybe we could just make murder against the law?  
lazs

"Homicide in England and Wales includes the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide. In 1997, 738 deaths were initially recorded as homicide. This was a 9% rise from 1996, exceeded this century only by 753 in 1995. Around 15% of homicides as recorded by the police are generally reclassified as other offences following police and court action.......

In 1997 around 8% of homicides involved firearms and almost one third a sharp weapon. Firearm use in homicide has fallen over the past few years, in common with firearm use in other offences......

While the most common method of killing in 1997 was with a sharp instrument (just under a third of offences), nine per cent of the 650 homicide victims currently recorded for England and Wales in 1997 were shot."

[Toad]

The undenable fact is that England/Wales/Scotland have far, far more homicides using sharp instruments as the weapon of choice. Something on the order of Three Times as many.

Yet there is no outrage, no attempt to rectify this situation.

Why the discrepancy?

Obviously, far more sharp instrument are mis-used than firearms. Where's the focus on the obvious?

[lazs2]

they should probly pass a law that makes it illegal to kill people by any means and not worry so much about what tool is used.
lazs

[Nash]

I don't know if there's much to be gained from those stats Toad.

If you want someone dead, but don't have access to a gun (strict gun laws), yer next best option is a knife. Such is the case in England. So it should be no suprise that since knives by far outnumber guns, deaths by knives would surpass that of death by guns.

Or are you trying to imply something else and it's going over my head?

[Toad]

Nash,

So you're thinking it may be the criminal and not the inanimate object? Me too! What a coincidence!

Actually, my point is that these holier-than-thou types that proudly point to a lower gun homicide level seem to ignore the fact that sharp instruments are their real problem. No expense, no restriction, no reduction in personal freedom is too much to give in the war against evil firearms but sharp instruments? Eh? Who cares? Right? Toodle-pip as they say.

Simply seems like they'd be hard at work rounding up the butter knives if they were truly sincere about this saving lives stuff. But not a peep about "sharp instrument restriction" from them.

A tacit admission that it's not the inanimate object but the MAN behind the deed? As everyone has been saying for so long? That the gun aspect is merely a "feel good" measure?

[bounder]

No, I'll swallow the bait, hook line and proverbial then

Originally posted by lazs2
private pleasure aviation is pretty useless too... as is swimming and hiking...  any nut could crash a private plane into a school and kill dozens maybe hundreds of children... why not be proactive and stop it while you can?   I mean... do it for the children..   swimming and hiking.... far more killed than even blunt instruments and so..... needlessly... get your nannies at the home office"  (just writing home office cracks me up for some reason) to ban hiking and swimming and private aviation... do it for the children.

Or... wait... maybe we could just make murder against the law?  
lazs

Huh?

I was merely pointing out to toad , in a somewhat roundabout and indirect way I admit, the monomodality of the gun, and the complete opposite case with the knife. Both are weapons, true, but the knife has so many other uses that we cannot be without them, as I'm sure you'll concur.

Not really sure what you were getting at with all that ban private aviation and hiking business.

It's almost like you were equating hiking and weapons because they both kill people, but you wouldn't commit that kind of category error.

Oh and Toad:

The undenable fact is that England/Wales/Scotland have far, far more homicides using sharp instruments as the weapon of choice. Something on the order of Three Times as many.

Let me check this - The UK excluding NI has three times as many 'sharp instrument' homicides than the USA?

The way I see it -
Population of UK - approx 60 000 000
No. of homicides with knives (figures quoted above)
England & Wales 33% of 650/year =217
Scotland 50% of 66/year =33
total =250
population /total sharp instrument murders= 240,000:1


Population of USA - 288,567,803
No of homicides with knives (estimated from graph as  few as 2000)
total =2000
population/total sharp instrument murders= 144284:1

or to put it another way, all other things being eqaul, the probability of your being murdered with a kinfe in any one year are:

In the UK    .00000416
In the USA  .00000693

Now that makes UK homicide rate per year per person about 2/3rds of  USA n'est ce pas?

Thoughts, comments criticisms?

[Nashwan]

It's impossible to ban knives, because they are needed for preparation of food.

A tacit admission that it's not the inanimate object but the MAN behind the deed?

Guns don't kill people, they just make it easier for criminals to kill people.

private pleasure aviation is pretty useless too... as is swimming and hiking... any nut could crash a private plane into a school and kill dozens maybe hundreds of children... why not be proactive and stop it while you can?

And yet very few nuts do, whereas criminals with guns kill thousands every year.

Of course, it could be the fact that you have to have a lot of training and qualify to fly a plane, whereas any nut can buy a gun in the US (providing they haven't been caught yet)

Homicide in England and Wales includes the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide. In 1997, 738 deaths were initially recorded as homicide. This was a 9% rise from 1996, exceeded this century only by 753 in 1995. Around 15% of homicides as recorded by the police are generally reclassified as other offences following police and court action.......

Toad, I'm disappointed that you ignored my reply to your previous post, where I got the facts to prove that the website you were quoting was wrong.

[Toad]

It's impossible to ban knives, because they are needed for preparation of food.
 

Well, gee, can't a nanny watch over the knife inventory? You know, knife registration and licensing, secure storage, police oversight when the knife is in actual use?

Guns don't kill people, they just make it easier for criminals to kill people.

Apparently the exact same thing can be said about sharp instruments in England/Wales/Scotland.... and about three times as loudly, eh?

Where's the attempt at resolution? Even one life is too much, as Beetle pointed out. Where's the interest in changing things?

Or is it the man behind the deed, not the inanimate object after all?

I haven't revisited that thread; simply been too busy. Will try to recheck it shortly.

[lazs2]

no bounder you miss the point... firearms homicides are comparitively few as deaths go  and when they(firearms) are eliminated.... something else takes their place for the murdering crowd... there are far more effective ways to murder people... knives don't make noise for instance.   Cars are more sure... just run em over... happens all the time... school yard shootings are nothing compared to the bombings that are going on around the world... suicide or other wise..  

And.. if saving lives is the paramount thing... why not ban swimming... the rewards in lives saved would be 50 times greater than even the most stringent gun ban... if there can even be shown, which I doubt, a savings of lives from a gun ban...   banning swimming would indeed show a savingings in lives... you can't cut your steak with a swim suit so what good is swimming?

and... far from being useless... In our country... it is a fact that guns STOP crime... crime of all sorts including murder at the rate of between 750,000 to 3,000,000 times a year..  undoubtably a net gain... so... it would apear, using our stats, that england is causing it's murder and crime rate ... endangering it's citizens buy it's effeminate and neurotic fear of an inatimate object... the firearm.. Appearance over substance... the liberal way.

if saving lives and preventing crime is useful... then maybe guns are far more useful than knives.   knives are not the best tool for that but they seem to be quite good enough for murderers.   no good for preventing crime but excelent for propogating it.  

If a nut does crash a private plane into a school yard... if a rash of 2 or three nuts crash planes into school yards.... are you going to go on record as calling for a ban on private aviation?
lazs

[OIO]

You can run from someone with a knife though.

[Toad]

Then the folks in England, Wales and Scotland better start running faster, eh?

Because knives are catching them something like three times as often as bullets are.