Author Topic: Stupid Question: What's it take to kill a Tiger? (Read 1157 times)

Pongo · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2002, 01:48:03 PM »

The US Army planned on taking 5 shermans to kill a tiger.
But a well sighted 6pdr could do it...As the brits proved many times.

Shiva · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2002, 01:49:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
A direct hit with a bomb or another Tiger. Or... a panzer if the tiger driver has his head up his kazoo.

Doesn't have to have his head up his wazoo; they just have to be slow. I popped a Tiger with a single shot from a PzKpfw IV's gun at 2800 yards (well, four shots -- three ranging and one hit). You just have to either get in close enough that you can punch through his front/side/rear armor, or stay far enough away that your rounds are dropping in on his deck armor. If you've got a good enough eye to be able to get hits at 2500 yards or more, you can get kills -- but if you let him keep closing, he's going to close off the shot angle and render himself immune to your gun as long as he stays outside your direct-shot kill range.

GScholz · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2002, 04:24:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
The US Army planned on taking 5 shermans to kill a tiger.
But a well sighted 6pdr could do it...As the brits proved many times.

5 Shermans would never be enough to take out a Tiger. On the Eastern front the Tiger enjoyed a K/D well beyond 10/1 against the T34. The T34 is a far better tank than the M4.

wulfie · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2002, 05:00:03 PM »

"The US Army planned on taking 5 shermans to kill a tiger.
But a well sighted 6pdr could do it...As the brits proved many times."

I don't know about 'many times'. In fact, I don't think I've ever read of an account where a 6 Pdr. AT or MBT MA 'killed' a Pz VIE. The British usually dropped a Galaxy worth of 25 Pdr. artillery on Pz Vs and Pz VIs when they saw them - which often resulted in immobilzation which was a 'mission kill' if the Germans were attacking.

"5 Shermans would never be enough to take out a Tiger. On the Eastern front the Tiger enjoyed a K/D well beyond 10/1 against the T34. The T34 is a far better tank than the M4."

The 5 Shermans/Pz VIE is from Allied data and it's for real. There's a couple of reasons behind the difference:

1. Average range of engagement in NWE was ~ 1/4 of what it was on the Eastern front. Pz VIEs on the Eastern front had alot of engagements where they could 'cue up' on T-34s at 1500-2000 meters. With the far superior gunsight/optics of the Pz VIE as compared to the T-34...not a good day to be a T-34 crewman.

2. Allied artillery in NWE was far more flexible, and used smoke far more often than Russian artillery. Russian artillery usually equalled a huge barrage vs. MLR at the start of an attack. Pz VIEs come in on flank of Russian attack as counterattack force = they weren't targeted by artillery 1/5 as much as they were in NWE.

3. The terrain of NWE provided far more cover for flanking movements vs. German armor. What's grim is it still ended up being a '5 to 1 average'.

Mike/wulfie

Pongo · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2002, 06:01:20 PM »

The first Tigers encountered in North africa were killed by 6 pounders.
Micheal Wittmans Villers Bocage rampage was ended by a 6 pounder.

The US had far better tactical control of its tanks then the soviets..better coordination and fire control systems. In perfect tiger country like the open stepp..ya 5 would not likely be enough, In the bocage or more tight terrrain..it definalty is. If 3 of them are willing to die.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2002, 06:22:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LLv34_Camouflage
1800 kg is about 4000lbs. A near miss should throw the Tiger 30ft in the air.

Camo

It doesn't. Last night I thought I had a direct hit on a Tiger I tank with a 1.8kg bomb (Tiger was parked in the middle of the crater the bomb left) but it was still firing at friendly ground vehicles. If it was a direct hit like I thought it was, or near hit like it appeared to be, the Tiger should have been destroyed regardless but it wasn't. It was only when a friendly Tiger I starting firing at it did it finally die.

The damn beast is tough and I can't help but chuckle when I see Spitfires trying to strafe the Tiger with their .303 spit wads.

Ack-Ack

wulfie · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2002, 08:19:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
The first Tigers encountered in North africa were killed by 6 pounders.
Micheal Wittmans Villers Bocage rampage was ended by a 6 pounder.

Okay - no shame here - you're confusing 6 Pdr. (57mm) with 17 Pdr. (very high velocity 76mm, basically British version of Pz V MA with very effective APDS ammunition).

The Pz VIEs that were knocked out in N. Africa were caught in a very well sprung ambush involving British MBTs, 17 Pdr. AT, and 25 Pdr. artillery (British artillery crews/control/etc. was superb).

Wittman was thought to have been killed by a 500 lb. direct hit from a Typhoon for some time, but later it was discovered that he was killing tangling with 2 or 3 Sherman 'Firefly', which carried 17 Pdr. as MA.

Mike/wulfie

715 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2002, 08:47:17 PM »

I've killed a couple of Tigers with a Panzer via point blank flank shots into tread area (first one blew up with one hit, second died later after two hits). I had taken up a hull down position at right angles to where the Tigers were cresting a hill on the way to our base. It is possible- but given the nature of the AH terrains the probability of getting that close is usually nil.
Frontal shots normally bounce off- I once nearly killed myself with a ricochet off a Tiger.

mrniel · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2002, 09:00:06 PM »

Was somewhat surprised myself.
As a base was taken, an enemy tiger was parked at the runway end. A group of vehicles was already launched, and hammering him from all sides at less than 300 yards. I got a panzer, and drove it to his rear, a m8 was already there, and at approx 200 yards I fired AP after AP straight into the rear end of the Tiger. After 20 or so AP I switched to HE, still nothing. Still straight in to the rear motorcompartment.
A whole group af VH was still firering at him, while planes in
bunches dived on him.
At last it exploded.
But I still wished I filmed it.
One word. UNBELIVEABLE.

Supertank indeed.

Pongo · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2002, 10:33:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by wulfie
Okay - no shame here - you're confusing 6 Pdr. (57mm) with 17 Pdr. (very high velocity 76mm, basically British version of Pz V MA with very effective APDS ammunition).

The Pz VIEs that were knocked out in N. Africa were caught in a very well sprung ambush involving British MBTs, 17 Pdr. AT, and 25 Pdr. artillery (British artillery crews/control/etc. was superb).

Wittman was thought to have been killed by a 500 lb. direct hit from a Typhoon for some time, but later it was discovered that he was killing tangling with 2 or 3 Sherman 'Firefly', which carried 17 Pdr. as MA.

Mike/wulfie

lol
I am refering to villers bocage..where he earned fame in the west. Not where he was killed.
no His Tiger on the day of his rampage against the desert rats was stopped by a flank shot by a 6 pounder...Im looking at a picture of the exact tank and location..dont go there..

And I have read several times that the first time that Brits met Tigers in North africa..they killed them with 6 pounders.
As the introduction of the Tiger in Tunisia predates even the 17 pounder on the jury rigged 25pounder cariage by 4 months. I think it unlikly the 17 pounder was involved.

I am not making this up...killing a tiger from the flank was well within the capabilities of the 6 pounder...You seem to be saying it isnt.

emodin · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2002, 12:22:44 AM »

In the MA, it seems to take a DIRECT hit by a bomb to kill a Tiger. This includes the IL-2's 250kg bombs (haven't tried the 100kgs on them). Basically, if you hit it, it seems to die. At least that has been my experience. Anything short of a direct impact doesn't do much, if anything.

Pongo · « **Reply #26 on:** December 21, 2002, 12:49:19 AM »

I would say it is closer to the truth to just let direct hits kill it then to allow area hits to kill it. Especially as there is not place to hide in the game.

SOB · « **Reply #27 on:** December 21, 2002, 01:20:27 AM »

I agree with Pongo...make a direct hit kill it. What's the point of commanding a tank if any shmuck with a bomb can kill you by dropping it close to you?

SOB

Beefcake · « **Reply #28 on:** December 21, 2002, 01:30:05 AM »

I love playing the Villers Bocage rampage mission in Combat Mission. Though I aways kill the 6 pound gun before it can Kill Wittmans Tank. Sad thing is I've had Wittmans tank knocked out by an M5 Sturat at close range.

GPreddy · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2002, 01:48:18 AM »

Ive killed a few panzers with one 1k bomb. 20m cannon dont seem to have any effect at all and likewise the 40mm on the HurrIID. I once dropped 4 1k eggs with two direct hits and one each fore and aft. He continued to fire throughout and finally ditched before I could bring more eggs.

In a Tiger I have killed them from the flank with one shot. From the rear they seem to be unkillable or at least require some luck. I managed to put ten shots into one from the rear while he turned his turret 180 degrees and then took his time getting the range. He killed me before I killed him and I didnt miss at all.

I have downed one plane with the pintle machine gun. He tried to put rockets into me and they did hit me but I knocked his wing off.

I have been flanked by Osties in the Tiger and they can kill them. One shot from a Panzer IVH can kill one too.

Worse I have heard reports that an M16 can kill one though they have yet to damage mine.