Author Topic: German svastika  (Read 5185 times)

Offline Shane

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German svastika
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2003, 05:39:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
Yeah, wow I just saw that.  I guess shane wont be posting anymore!

dream on!  :)

my posts very rarely delve into the tawdry side - and none lately.


oh yeah....

:D
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline ergRTC

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German svastika
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2003, 05:43:49 PM »
Finally you send us a self portrait shane. ;P  Did you see the thread we are referring to?  Here is the link.  

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=723413#post723413

Hitechs repsonse to slash up above.

and yes, lately your posts have been relatively civil. ....  pretty much.

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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German svastika
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2003, 11:30:02 PM »
ergRTC I told ya I would read your later posts and I might reply in closing. Well, I decided to reply in closing just to sum up this/my topic...I hope.

The original topic was about the German svastika. This was a symble of hate which offends many people, including myself if displayed as such. This lead to my reply about the Confederate battle flag and why it also offends people. The flag did not represent slavery/hate. The reason it is viewed as hate now is stated below in relation to the hate groups that adopted it. This relates to the German svastika only that it involves hate groups.


"It is necessary to disclaim any connection of the Confederate flags to neo-nazis, red-necks, skin-heads, "White Supremacists"  and the like. These groups have adopted these flags and desecrated them by their acts. They have no right to use these flags - they are  flags of honor, designed by the Confederacy as a banner representing state's rights and still revered by the South. The "South" denies any relation to these hate groups and denies them the right to use the flags of the Confederacy for any purpose. The crimes committed by these groups under the stolen banner of the Confederacy only exacerbate the lies which link the seccesion to slavery interests when, from a Southerner's view, the cause was state's rights".


Misused Symbols and Scapegoats: Why I Stand Up for the Confederate Flag

Am I, a white Southerner, offended by public displays of the Confederate battle flag?

The answer, not surprisingly, is no. My ancestors – dirt-poor Alabama farmers who did not own slaves – threw themselves against an enemy that outnumbered them three to one and outgunned them a thousand to one, and fought until they were too spent to draw back the hammer of a rifle.

They fought to preserve their homes, families and the sanctity of states' rights, and did so under a slashed, red banner designed to reduce confusion in the heat and smoke of battle. It was, and still is, a symbol of courage, fidelity and sacrifice on a grand scale.

Not everyone, of course, sees it that way. Black Americans in particular claim to be offended by the flag's public display because, for them, it represents the institution of slavery. Yet in any discussion about this particular symbol, we must remember a couple of historical notes:

The Confederacy supported slavery, but so did the United States. In fact, it was the U.S. flag that flew the longest over slavery, and it was the U.S. Constitution that condoned and protected it as an institution. It was the United States that allowed slavery to flourish so that Northern businessmen could get rich.

Further, Abraham Lincoln – the Great Emancipator himself – wasn't terribly worked up over the welfare of slaves and said so a number of times. His concern was that he shouldn't preside over a divided country, and went to war to keep the South in the fold, not to eradicate slavery.

So, if we're going to start censoring symbols, there's a lot of candy-striped flags to remove from statehouses, post offices, American Legion halls, cemeteries, school houses, and office buildings.

My point is that no cultural group celebrates its lowest common denominator. Blacks in this country don't hold African heritage festivals to honor the fact that their own people gleefully sold them into slavery, or to support the genocide, sexual mutilation of women and absence of human rights that characterize Africa to this day. No, they celebrate tribal family values that helped see them through the terrible days of enslavement on a foreign shore.

Those of Japanese descent in America don't celebrate the Bataan Death March, the Rape of Nanking or the murder of tens of thousands of innocent Allied prisoners during World War II. Rather, they point to centuries of beauty and art, and hold them up as ideals of their culture.

Likewise, Oktoberfests don't exist to celebrate the slaughter of millions of Jews and an insane attempt at world domination. Instead, Germans rightly point to the influence their culture has had in music, architecture and philosophy.

And American Southerners who honor their Confederate heritage do not celebrate the institution of slavery. We pay homage to superhuman courage and heroism in the face of overwhelming odds. We list dedication, sacrifice and a willingness to die for home and hearth as the height of what is good in the human spirit.

The day we say, "You may no longer revere your cultural heritage because of your culture's sins or the misuse of its symbols," is the day we must eliminate every culture known to man.

But when you strip the issue to its core, the problem isn't the Confederate battle flag at all. The problem is that its most vitriolic opponents – specifically the NAACP, which attacks Confederate heritage at every opportunity – aren't doing anything to address real problems among blacks.

By attacking Confederate occasions and symbols, the NAACP succeeds in drawing attention to things most people normally wouldn't notice – which, I submit, is precisely what the group wants. Its aim is to deflect attention from the real dilemmas facing blacks and from the fact that the NAACP is doing nothing to solve them.

For example, 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock, which studies show puts them at a much greater risk of living in poverty. Black 17-year-olds read at the same level as white 13-year-olds. On average, black students score 200 points below whites on the SAT.

Further, 52 percent of prison inmates are black and another third are on probation or parole. Fifty-two percent of blacks say they are afraid to walk alone at night in their neighborhoods.

Where's the NAACP's outrage over these deplorable social conditions? Where are the marches and demonstrations and editorials and community programs designed to draw attention to and solve these problems? Does the NAACP really think that the elimination of Confederate events and symbols will suddenly make life a bed of buttercups for blacks in this country?

I've got a news flash for them. If all Confederate proclamations, commemorative events and emblems disappeared overnight, the material interests of blacks wouldn't improve one iota. Nor would racial stereotypes, bigotry and hatred miraculously vanish.

The enemy here isn't a historical symbol or the long-dead soldiers who fought under it, but rather the NAACP's unwillingness to come to grips with real dilemmas that need real solutions. The flag is simply a convenient scapegoat.



I must also add that the "White Supremacists" of the 1940s, 50s, and 60s severally crippled the "healing" process of our cultures and permanently scared the all but forgotten truth and honor of the Confederate Soldier.

Hawk Out!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2003, 11:36:49 PM by CurtissP-6EHawk »

Offline -Concho-

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German svastika
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2003, 11:48:07 PM »
man, I leave for a couple of days and miss a full blown political debate.

Glad to see ya'll off of Texas any way  :D

btw slash my momma don't dip, she chaws

Offline Jester

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German svastika
« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2003, 03:02:14 AM »
DAMN SHANE! BAD HAIR DAY! Go easy on the "Dippidy Do" there bud - little goes along way!  :D
Lt. JESTER
VF-10 "GRIM REAPERS"

WEBSITE:  www.VF10.org

Offline ergRTC

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German svastika
« Reply #110 on: January 15, 2003, 08:52:43 AM »
Hawk you are right in many ways, but just as you complain the naacp ignoring one truth for another, I think ignoring the real propaganda used by the south to get people to fight is just as wrong.  To the average joe or jeb, the war was about preserving a lifestyle.  The Nationalism of the south had a pretty nasty back bone.

The US had to support slavery, I think you need to remember that the sawth was part of the US, and for the south to have slaves, it had to be supported by the US.  Otherwise this would really make no sense at all.

As for your numbers,  I do an incredible amount of statistical work, and you should remember one thing.  Assuming those terrible numbers are correct (ouch, are they just for texas or alabama or something?)  you have to remember confounding variables.  One major one is the reason we have affirmative action.  Black people, because of historical socio economic reasons are disproptionately poor and undereductated.  Compare some po whites to some po blacks, then give me those numbers again.

Also, your blast on the NAACP may be justified in your mind because you are not a racist, segragationist, or just plain bad guy, but many many many white southerners are, hell many white midwesterners are (just visit the Dakotas or rural Minnesota).  The flag is the calling card.  When I travel up into the Blue Ridge and west virginia (i dont even think west virginia seceded did it?), there are three kinds of houses.  Houses without the con. flag., houses with the con flag, and houses with the con flag and a yard full of those horrendous little lawn jockeys.  The later is the more common.

Well, I think this will be my last post, we need to wrap this up.  Was fun though.  

(moderator): Hawk you have 20 seconds for a final reply....  ;)

Offline Naso

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German svastika
« Reply #111 on: January 15, 2003, 09:44:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Andijg
Naso- about "American Bashing" - at least our chicks shave their pitts! :D
 



Chicks???

Chickens???

your chickens shave themselves?? :eek:

Offline gofaster

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Re: German svastika
« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2003, 12:32:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kanttori
I am making update and couple of new skins to FinRus CT-map and I have one question:

Can I use svastika on German plane's tails or is there some rules/laws you can not use them?

I really have NOT nazi sympathizes, but I think of them in historical meaning on skins!


You could try and use substitutes. A capital letter X or N should be close enough.

"Air Warrior" used to put the country letters in place of the swastika - A, B, or C - in black with white outline.  
« Last Edit: January 15, 2003, 12:36:54 PM by gofaster »

Offline Slash27

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German svastika
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2003, 04:52:25 PM »
Dont change the subject Gofaster:D

Offline Estes

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Slash
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2003, 05:05:12 PM »
Did hitech make you cry? :p
Dont worry about it man he has gotten alot stricter because of all the crap on the bbs..Cant say I blame him at all.

Offline ergRTC

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German svastika
« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2003, 05:23:38 PM »
hehe good one slash.


You guys ever hear of the novel called Cold Mountain?  Just heard a bit about it on the radio.  Bout a confederate soldier, kind of a civil war take on the odyssey I think.  They say its hard to digest but very good.

Offline Slash27

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German svastika
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2003, 06:19:35 AM »
Thats what I get for hanging out with you Hang.:)


Does it have alot of pictures erg?:D

Offline ergRTC

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German svastika
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2003, 08:34:59 AM »
That would be nice, but I dont think so.

I think it is supposed to be the non-romantic gone with the wind or something.

Offline Oldman731

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German svastika
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2003, 11:16:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
You guys ever hear of the novel called Cold Mountain?  Just heard a bit about it on the radio.  Bout a confederate soldier, kind of a civil war take on the odyssey I think.  They say its hard to digest but very good.

It's excellent.  Author tries to write like Annie Proulx ("The Shipping News"), isn't quite up to that standard, but is very good, anyway.  

- oldman

Offline PropNut

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German svastika
« Reply #119 on: January 22, 2003, 11:16:45 PM »
Can't Change history just because someone doesn,t like it....if its historically correct use it.  Ive seen fuzzed-out  models on Ebay...Ridiculous ...whats next...no mention of Hitler or Nazis in history books? or on History Channel?? after all its one of the oldest symbols used by man (Hitler picked it up from a stained glass in a church" anyway thats my .02

 PropNut:) http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/swastika.html