Author Topic: German svastika  (Read 4685 times)

Offline -Concho-

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German svastika
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2003, 12:19:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
lol    was watching the Osbournes tonight.  Great tv:D


Hey Conch,  you ignorant,redneck,beer swilling, wife beating, cross burning, trailer trash dumb son of a squeak.  Hows it going?:D


I totally resent that statement and I demand that it be retracted!!

I haven't lived in a trailer for over 4 years, there aint no way i could be trailer trash!!   :)

btw how the the hell did you know my moms a squeak?!

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2003, 12:24:40 AM »
RTC is was me that brought up the flag...which leads to Slashes remark:

"Do the history books in school still have 2 pages on WW2.nothing on Korea, and a paragraph on Vietnam just before you get to the index?"


History books in schools are a huge joke! This enhances my point on the ignorance on both modern southerners and northerners by the lack of interests, government and factual resorces.

If you wish to proceed with this issue, I have a fifty five gallon drum of whip-ass (redneck term for "you dont stand a chance") to go along with it :eek:

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2003, 02:16:00 AM »
"Juinor, when we get home. I'm gonna punch your mama right in the mouth"-  Bufford T. Justice



Sorry Conch, they changed the rules in '98.  Its 3.5 years now and it still counts even if you take the wheels off. Thats about as bad as when they started counting the double wides. Damn you liberals,  its a manufactured home!!!  Still interested in that tornado shelter Conch?:D



btw  it was Dink that told me about your mom. He saw her at the Sack n' Save with no shoes on buying a can of snuff.

Offline Naso

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« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2003, 07:26:20 AM »
OH boy!!!

I am really enjoing this US autobashing thread!! :D

This is the prove of the beduin syndrome!! ;)

Quote
"me against my brother,

me and my brother against my cousin,

me, my brother and my cousin against our tribe,

our tribe against other tribes,

all tribes against the foreigners."

Offline ergRTC

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German svastika
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2003, 08:53:51 AM »
Nice one naso.

Whats worse is that we are all in the same squad, even lowe is an old founder of the vf27.

This is why bush needs to keep us at war with the rest of the world.  If we go into recession without distraction, we will just beat each other up. ;)

erg

Offline Naso

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« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2003, 09:16:10 AM »
How true, how true!

 ;)

Offline 1Duke1

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« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2003, 09:26:17 AM »
LOL Slash, that's one of my favorite lines from that movie......no body better than Jackie Gleason!

Now you boys save some of this energy for OPs tonight:)

Duke

Offline ergRTC

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German svastika
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2003, 10:13:37 AM »
no duke, your supposed to say

"Get back in the car jr."  -b.t.j.

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2003, 11:41:16 AM »
Lets dont forget the all time favorite; One of these days Alice, ONE OF THESE DAYS, BAM right in the kisser! Jackie Gleason

Offline Löwe

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« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2003, 05:18:22 PM »
LOL my favorite jackie Gleason line is also from Smokey and the Bandit.

" Give me a Diablo sandwich , and a Dr Pepper, and make it fast cause I'm in a Got Damn hurry!"

Offline Odee

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« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2003, 05:51:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Lets dont forget the all time favorite; One of these days Alice, ONE OF THESE DAYS, BAM right in the kisser! Jackie Gleason


You huckleberry score potato, It is... "One of these days Alice, BAM, to the MOON!"   Not "...right in the kisser"  That's what he told Norton. :D
« Last Edit: January 07, 2003, 05:54:40 PM by Odee »
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Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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German svastika
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2003, 06:13:58 PM »
ah, that one too!!

Offline cajun

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« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2003, 10:59:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC

Thank god my family was busy homesteading during the civil war.  No time to go down there and teach the southerners about state rights/civil rights.

 
The Civil war was NOT about slavery, it was 100% about the economy, the northerners were actuelly the ones that were not treating the south right, they kept them so poor they had no choice but to use slaves, and many southern slave owners were infact very nice to their slaves, and actuelly worked for their owners after they were released since they had no other jobs better. Of course there were just as many people who did misstreat the slaves unfortunitly, but slavery would have been outlawed in the south had it won or not.
The real descrimination came after the war, when the north came in and raised all the blacks up to higher positions and not the whites(though they had good intentions), the friend of my enemy is my enemy is the way the whites looked at it, and the north was still seen as the enemy.
thats what lead to the real descrimination of blacks in the south! and I've been up north too, and heard many people talking much worse about them than that!
The north were the ones that brought the whole Idea of the war being about slavery, that was not the case!


  The french canadians (cajuns) have a looong history of being descriminated against, noone wanted them, they were perhaps just as bad off if not worse than the slaves of that time, french was even banned from schools when my grandfather was growing up, if you even spoke french in school you would be very badly punished! so the blacks and cajuns in louisianna got allong pretty well, they were both descriminated against.

 The north never recognized the south, they never attempted to rebuild it after the war, they just let it starve in poverty.
Don't get me wrong, I think its good our country stayed as one and the north won, but for the north to just let the south die in poverty and do every thing possible they could to erase the history of the confederate states of america, is not right!

"History is written by the winners"

Symbols/flags do not offend me, I don't really see why they should offend anyone.
But if its illigal in germany to have a swatsica in a game (wich imo is kinda stupid..) I guess its best left out.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2003, 11:04:18 PM by cajun »

Offline ergRTC

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« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2003, 07:55:01 AM »
For a good treatise on why the war happened I would suggest Tocquevilles 1832 'Democracy in America".  Obviously this predates the war, but it becomes obvious rapidly why it was brewing.  

The war started when the south saw that they were  not going to maintain a 'half slave nation'  by the introduction of new slave free states, the growing population and economy of the north, and the threat of dropping tarriffs on foreign cotton.

If you dont want to suffer through the book mentioned above (which I would suggest anyone attempt, because it is incredible), there is a very well written peice on Calhoun found here
http://militaryhistory.about.com/library/prm/blhestartedthecivilwar1.htm

Which really does a nice job.  Here is a snipit from page 2.

By Ethan S. Rafuse for Civil War Times Illustrated Magazine  
 
Calhoun hoped to use his accomplishments as war secretary as a springboard to the presidency. When that dream fell through, however, Calhoun had no problem accepting the vice presidency under staunch federalist John Quincy Adams in 1824. Adams was glad to have Calhoun in his administration, having held him in high esteem since their days together in Monroe’s cabinet. Adams was particularly impressed by Calhoun’s "ardent patriotism," believing Calhoun was "above all sectional and factious prejudices more than any other statesman of the Union with whom I have ever acted." This was an image Calhoun cultivated during the 1824 election campaign.

It turned out that Calhoun was late in publicly promoting his commitment to federalism. By this time, Southerners were increasingly taking an anti-federal-government stance. In the North, industry and the economy it created grew in influence and power every day. Meanwhile, the rapidly expanding cultivation of cotton and other cash crops was committing the South to an agrarian economy and culture, which depended on slavery. The country was dividing into two increasingly self-conscious sections with different priorities. And as the issue of slavery came to the fore in American politics, the South found itself on the defensive. Because of the South’s investment in large-scale agriculture, any attack on slavery was an attack on the Southern economy itself.

The issue came to a head in 1819 with the debate over whether to allow the Missouri Territory to become a state. The result was the historic Missouri Compromise of 1820, which permitted the territory to enter the Union as a slave state while Maine entered as a free state, maintaining the balance between free and slave states at 12 each. The compromise also prohibited slavery in the remainder of the Louisiana Purchase north of Missouri’s southern border.

On the surface, the Missouri Compromise seemed to heal the sectional breach that slavery had created. But the fact that the debate had divided along sectional lines awakened the South to the reality that it was a distinct section—a section that was apparently inevitably destined to be a minority in the Union, while the Northern states enjoyed increasing political representation and power born of rapid population growth.

In the 1820s, Southerners grew increasingly anxious about the North controlling the federal government and about how that situation threatened the South and its distinctive institutions. They looked to leaders who would limit federal power. Cal-houn unexpectedly found himself the target of sharp criticism from leading South Carolina figures, including Thomas Cooper, the president of the state college. In 1824, Cooper published a widely circulated pamphlet attacking Calhoun. "He spends the money of the South to buy up influence in the North," Cooper grumbled.

If Calhoun wanted to maintain his status as a Southern leader and reach his political goals, he could not ignore the changing political landscape. He recognized it would be a mistake to maintain his association with Adams, whose ideas to expand the use of federal power to promote national economic, intellectual, and cultural development drew a cold reception in South Carolina. So when Andrew Jackson began preparing to challenge Adams in the 1828 presidential election, Calhoun switched sides. The Democrats rewarded Calhoun by making him their candidate for vice president, and the ticket won.

That same year, Congress passed a highly protective tariff that Southerners bitterly opposed, viewing the measure as sacrificing Southern agrarian interests to benefit Northern industry. The protest against the so-called Tariff of Abominations grew particularly strong in South Carolina, and in response to a request from the state legislature, Calhoun secretly wrote an essay titled "South Carolina Exposition and Protest." In it, he asserted that states had a constitutional right to nullify any federal government actions they considered unconstitutional. Calhoun had become the chosen mouthpiece for Southern rights. Confirmation of his new status came when Congress adopted another high tariff in 1832 and South Carolina legislators used the principles Calhoun had voiced in his "Exposition and Protest" to declare the tariff "null and void."

Offline ergRTC

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« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2003, 07:58:24 AM »
and from page 5...

 

 
 
During the 1830s and 1840s, the growth of the Northern abolition movement and attempts by Northern politicians to push the federal government to act against slavery confirmed for Calhoun that the North intended to exercise its power as a majority to the detriment of Southern interests. He responded to these attacks with the argument that the Constitution gave Congress no regula-tory power over slavery. To Northern politicians who dismissed this argument and continued to push antislavery measures through Congress, he warned that the South "cannot remain here in an endless struggle in defense of our character, our property, and institutions." He said that if abolitionist agitation did not end, "we must become, finally, two peoples.... Abolition and the Union cannot co-exist." Even compromise was not possible, in his opinion.

As the antislavery movement continued to build up steam, Calhoun continually found himself having to defend slavery on moral, ethical, and political grounds. By the 1830s it had already become unsatisfactory for Southern politicians to apologize for slavery and excuse it as a necessary evil; to do so would have been to admit that slavery was morally wrong. So a major shift in the Southern defense of slavery occurred, one that Calhoun had a large role in bringing about.

Calhoun endorsed slavery as "a good—a great good," based on his belief in the inequality inherent in the human race. Calhoun believed that people were motivated primarily by self-interest and that competition among them was a positive expression of human nature. The results of this competition were displayed for all to see in the social order: those with the greatest talent and ability rose to the top, and the rest fell into place beneath them.

The concepts of liberty and equality, idealized during the Revolutionary period, were potentially destructive to this social order, Calhoun believed. With the stratification of society, those at the top were recognized as authority figures and respected for their proven wisdom and ability. If the revolutionary ideal of equality were taken too far, the authority of the elite would not be accepted. Without this authority, Calhoun argued, society would break down and the liberty of all men would be threatened. In his manifesto A Disquisition on Government, he asserted that liberty was not a universal right but should be "reserved for the intelligent, the patriotic, the virtuous and deserving."

Calhoun believed the liberty Southerners enjoyed depended on slavery. Contrary to the writings of those who unabashedly celebrated the North’s free labor system, antebellum Southern society, though definitely stratified, was highly fluid. Fortunes could be and were made in a single generation. Agriculture, specifically cotton, was what made that society so mobile. Cotton was a labor-intensive crop, and as a farmer acquired greater cotton wealth, he required a greater number of field hands to work his expanding fields. So the ownership of slaves became a measure of status and upward mobility. To destroy slavery, according to Calhoun, would be to destroy a powerful symbol of what motivated the Southern man to improve himself.

In the end, Calhoun supported the institution of slavery for many reasons, but at the bottom of all his argument was this: he believed the African race was inferior. He shared the prevailing prejudices of the day—held in both the North and South—that black people were mentally, physically, and morally inferior to whites. This inferiority necessitated that they be slaves.

"There is no instance of any civilized colored race of any shade being found equal to the establishment and maintenance of free government," Calhoun argued. He pointed to the impoverished living conditions of Northern free blacks as proof that black people lacked the ability to exercise their freedom positively.

In Calhoun’s view, slavery benefited black people. "Never before has the black race...from the dawn of history to the present day, attained a condition so civilized and so improved, not only physically, but morally and intellectually," he asserted in Congress. "It came to us in a low, degraded, and savage condition, and in the course of a few generations it has grown up under the fostering care of our institutions."