Author Topic: Elevator authority (Read 1869 times)

JB73 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2003, 05:01:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furious
Fw190d9.

thats what i was thinking.... the roll would be so fast that the "slight nose down" would be almost instantaniously

midnight Target · « **Reply #31 on:** January 16, 2003, 05:11:46 PM »

My plane, the one with the tail shot off.

AKcurly · « **Reply #32 on:** January 16, 2003, 06:11:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by JB73
thats what i was thinking.... the roll would be so fast that the "slight nose down" would be almost instantaniously

JB, I think you are misunderstanding ... perhaps I am wrong. Imagine the plane which began a slight climbing turn and now it's rolled.

NOW, pull the stick towards you as hard as you can w/o destroying your a/c. Which plane accomplishes this (meaning pulling on the stick until you have reversed your direction) best. I don't believe it's the d9.

curly

DamnedRen · « **Reply #33 on:** January 16, 2003, 06:25:21 PM »

Hi Curly,

A couple of questions please.

Are you keeping the the enemy at the 1.6 the whole
time?
Is your object an escape reversal or attack?

The reason I'm asking is if you are on the attack a chandelle allows you easily get behind the guy which means you really have no rush to reverse and hammer the nails in.

Again, if he's 1.6 and not closing, depending on what yer flying, extend to a better advantage and come on back.

If your on defense thats another story which requires you to do some of that other pilot stuff.

Blue Mako · « **Reply #34 on:** January 16, 2003, 08:53:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKcurly
JB, I think you are misunderstanding ... perhaps I am wrong. Imagine the plane which began a slight climbing turn and now it's rolled.

NOW, pull the stick towards you as hard as you can w/o destroying your a/c. Which plane accomplishes this (meaning pulling on the stick until you have reversed your direction) best. I don't believe it's the d9.

curly

The answer doesn't really change. The aircraft with the best instantaneous and sustained turn rate mix will give you the fastest roll and reversal. A turnfighter will always turn through 180 degrees faster than an E fighter given the same starting conditions. A lower roll rate in the aircraft will not be as big a disadvantage as a low turn rate.

My pics are still the spit V, zeke or hurri.

Also, this does not take into account accelerated stall moves/flicks/warp turns.

Blue Mako · « **Reply #35 on:** January 16, 2003, 08:55:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GPreddy
His description of what he is looking for was good enough whether he got the nomenclature wrong or not.

Who said anything was wrong with nomenclature? I said that elevator authority wasn't the main consideration, I didn't say he'd used the wrong terms... Oh, I did try to answer his question based on the description too

CornGiveAway · « **Reply #36 on:** January 16, 2003, 09:00:47 PM »

190A8

BNM · « **Reply #37 on:** January 16, 2003, 10:02:00 PM »

Would have to have:

1) The Altitude
2) Ordinance loadout of each plane
3) Fuel loadout of each plane

Past that I'd have to go with the Zeke.

Kanth · « **Reply #38 on:** January 16, 2003, 10:58:49 PM »

I went back and read your question and thot about it this time.

I'm going to go with the D3A1

sounds like a joke answer but at 200 start, you roll 180 and pull hard you are now operating at super low speed.

all the turn fighters have various rates of roll but the difference I found was the ability to drag their nose under (pulling hard) without stalling into non-manuverability.

The Val will roll slow but the move of the nose from pointing away from your target to pointing to him (the 180 of the turn and not the roll) is the quickest.

what I'm saying is that the varience in the roll rates isn't as big a gap as the varience in the pulling under turn.

And the Val Shines in this area. Minimal stall you can fairly yank your way thru it and it doesn't gain much speed on the down turn driving the turn radius wide.

may sound like a dumb answer but that's what you get from a B&Z plane driver

btw this is without consideraton of flaps because that wasn't listed but would greatly help the move in most planes imo.

dtango · « **Reply #39 on:** January 17, 2003, 01:27:19 AM »

That Mako is a smart cookie!

"Beware the lessons of a fighter pilot who would rather fly a slide rule than kick your...[butt]"
Commander Ron "Mugs" McKeown, USN

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Ecliptik · « **Reply #40 on:** January 17, 2003, 02:33:55 AM »

At 180 mph in the P38, even with flaps (not full flap - you need to be under 150 mph for full flap in the 38), if you pull full elevator very quickly, in my experience you'll get snapped around in wingstall (if you have stall limiter off). Not sure how fast you'll get around with full elevator with the limiter on.

PS: What is this "flip reversal" I've noticed being mentioned in regards to the P38? It sounds to me like some sort of intentional wingstall to snap the plane around, but it would seem impossible to just instantly reverse and travel in the other direction, since at some point in this maneuever your speed would approach zero, and that could send you into a nasty flat spin if you aren't oriented properly.

AKcurly · « **Reply #41 on:** January 17, 2003, 03:07:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blue Mako
The answer doesn't really change. The aircraft with the best instantaneous and sustained turn rate mix will give you the fastest roll and reversal. A turnfighter will always turn through 180 degrees faster than an E fighter given the same starting conditions. A lower roll rate in the aircraft will not be as big a disadvantage as a low turn rate.

Mako, roll rate has nothing to do with the question I asked. I thought I made that clear --- guess not. The question was AFTER the 180 degree roll, which plane will permit you to pull though quickest.

I'm not saying it's smart or the correct thing to do, but that was the question.

curly

AKcurly · « **Reply #42 on:** January 17, 2003, 03:09:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DamnedRen
Hi Curly,

A couple of questions please.

Are you keeping the the enemy at the 1.6 the whole
time?
Is your object an escape reversal or attack?

Hi Ren,

No, he's closing ... fast enough that he won't be following you through the move unless he's very alert.

Escape reversal.

curly

SirLoin · « **Reply #43 on:** January 17, 2003, 04:46:38 AM »

P47 d11 gets my vote.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #44 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:53:41 AM »

The Sopwith Camel??

Karaya2