Author Topic: Elevator authority (Read 1870 times)

Zippatuh · « **Reply #45 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:11:51 AM »

P51D – but at about 300 Mph and one notch of flaps.

dtango · « **Reply #46 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:49:37 AM »

AKcurly:

The answer is still the same

. The a/c with the best instantaneous and sustained turn performance characteristics will give you the quickest reversal.

Mako mentioned the Spit V, Hurri, and Zeke. Maybe the FM2 though I think the hurri or zeke are probably the winners. The Val could be a darkhorse though from the reports that I see people mention on the performance of the plane.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #47 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:55:17 AM »

AKcurly, due the very low speed, your example has little to do with elevator authority.

ccvi · « **Reply #48 on:** January 17, 2003, 02:03:53 PM »

If the enemy is at d1.6k the a6m2 can turn 540 degrees to go for the HO.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #49 on:** January 17, 2003, 03:31:48 PM »

hurri or zeke

AKIron · « **Reply #50 on:** January 17, 2003, 04:21:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
AKcurly, due the very low speed, your example has little to do with elevator authority.

It seems to me that at very slow speed elevator authority would be most observable.

DamnedRen · « **Reply #51 on:** January 17, 2003, 04:56:02 PM »

< curly>>
Loaded question.

Are you saying you're gonna chose one of the above suggested rides because of one maneuver? Last time I saw you up you were flying a FogyWhoops.
Somehow I don't see you chasing around the arena in zeke just because you think your getting a slow reversal from your FW or any other plane for that matter.

Personally, I'd suggest you choose your all around ride then work on its handling characterics so that you play to its strengths against your opponents weaknesses. It's just as important to fly every other plane available so you know, without a doubt, each ones strengths and weakness.

I hope that doesn't sound like an easy out. We can discuss if offline if ya want.

Ren

AKcurly · « **Reply #52 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:08:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DamnedRen
< curly>>
Loaded question.

Are you saying you're gonna chose one of the above suggested rides because of one maneuver? Last time I saw you up you were flying a FogyWhoops.
Somehow I don't see you chasing around the arena in zeke just because you think your getting a slow reversal from your FW or any other plane for that matter.

Personally, I'd suggest you choose your all around ride then work on its handling characterics so that you play to its strengths against your opponents weaknesses. It's just as important to fly every other plane available so you know, without a doubt, each ones strengths and weakness.

I hope that doesn't sound like an easy out. We can discuss if offline if ya want.

Ren

Heck no, Ren. I just want to know the answer. Man, it's tough to generate a little information around here.

curly

DamnedRen · « **Reply #53 on:** January 17, 2003, 10:06:47 PM »

IMHO if you got yerself into the situation where the guys is gonna close with you (See Ren's normal flying

)I'd suggest you roll the wings left, 20 degrees (FW?) pull up a lil above the horizon just enuff to roll 120 dgrees and pull back thru in a tuck under back into him then extend from there. It's a modified pitch back that is not as high. If the nose doesn't get too high you lose little or no speed in the reversal nor much altitude. The roll with gentle pull up then the roll over and hard pull puts you out of plane with the other guy and spoils his shot. You remain just ahead of his HO shot and his rounds should go harmlessly behind you. Remember you're not that slow (I would hope)and neither is he so don't rule out the the possibility of an HO and jog accordingly.
The nose low pull is an extremely tight turn and with a little practice you'll find out how much initial "up" you'll need to remain level with bad guy on your reversal. BTW, if he goes into a high pitch back you will easily walk away as he slows.

How this is helpful.

This disertation and 99 cents might get you a cuppa java.

Puke · « **Reply #54 on:** January 18, 2003, 12:31:51 AM »

Even I don't get the question. Why even mention an enemy aircraft if you just want to know what can pull a reversal from an inverted position at such-&-such an airspeed fastest? But speaking of elevator authority, has anyone rolled inverted and then pressed your joystick forward to attempt an outside loop? Something doesn't seem right to me about how this plays out in AH.

DamnedRen · « **Reply #55 on:** January 18, 2003, 05:19:29 AM »

<<< But speaking of elevator authority, has anyone rolled inverted and then pressed your joystick
forward to attempt an outside loop? Something doesn't seem right to me about how this plays
out in AH.>>>

Not sure whacha mean, Puke. Last time I tried one it seemed ok. Around 2 G's, easing off over the top was clean and aligned.

Ren

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #56 on:** January 18, 2003, 08:26:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
It seems to me that at very slow speed elevator authority would be most observable.

This is not the case. For example, to flip on the vertical with a 190, you will use a lot of rudder and ailerons and you will force a "stall" that will end in a quick nose down. The 190 will go nose down quickly due the lack of lift, not due the excess of elevator authority.

With other planes, like spits, forcing that stall is much more difficult due the excess of lift. So, in these cases, you will need to "loop" using elevator instead of abruptly stall the plane to go nose down.

AKcurly · « **Reply #57 on:** January 18, 2003, 12:21:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DamnedRen
<<< But speaking of elevator authority, has anyone rolled inverted and then pressed your joystick
forward to attempt an outside loop? Something doesn't seem right to me about how this plays
out in AH.>>>

Not sure whacha mean, Puke. Last time I tried one it seemed ok. Around 2 G's, easing off over the top was clean and aligned.

Ren

Ren, he's talking about the symmetry in the flight model. 1. Roll your plane 180 degrees; 2. Press forward on your j/s; 3. It climbs as well this way as it does in the normal manner.

curly

AKIron · « **Reply #58 on:** January 18, 2003, 12:26:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
This is not the case. For example, to flip on the vertical with a 190, you will use a lot of rudder and ailerons and you will force a "stall" that will end in a quick nose down. The 190 will go nose down quickly due the lack of lift, not due the excess of elevator authority.

With other planes, like spits, forcing that stall is much more difficult due the excess of lift. So, in these cases, you will need to "loop" using elevator instead of abruptly stall the plane to go nose down.

OK, I can see that. But now that you've got the nose down don't you need the elevator to pull it back up to complete the 180 that Curly first mentioned?

eskimo2 · « **Reply #59 on:** January 18, 2003, 12:31:54 PM »

I'd vote for the A6M-2 or the Hurri 1, if the manuever can be done with all positve Gees. If you must roll completely before using the elevator (killing the float carb engine) later models of each may do better.

eskimo