Author Topic: Worth Repeating (Read 1819 times)

Habu · « **Reply #60 on:** February 16, 2003, 06:42:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund
The rules you are referring to changed with the Kosovo war already.

Yes but the middle eastern arab dictatorships that have no intention of introduceing democracy and who hold on to their power by providing the disinfranchised in their lands an outlet for their anger by passively encouraging them to hate the west and blame the west for all their problems, those dictatorships do not seem to have grasped the fact that the rules have changed.

Is that a run on sentence?

straffo · « **Reply #61 on:** February 17, 2003, 01:44:09 AM »

for once we agree Habu (you know now that it can happen

)

Hortlund · « **Reply #62 on:** February 17, 2003, 04:55:40 AM »

Weazel. Do you trust unicef as a source, or are they a part of the conservative conspiracy too?

http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/irqu5est.pdf

http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/irqscont.pdf

http://www.unicef.org/newsline/97pr60.htm

http://www.unicef.org/sowc01/pdf/SOWC5.pdf

Bottom line:
Over 1 000 000 Iraqi children suffer from malnutricion.

1999 numbers (latest avaliable)
Under 5 moratlity rate: 128
Infant moratlity rate: 104
Hard numbers: 804 000 (births) 103 000 (deaths)

Compare to Swedens numbers if you will
Under 5 mortality rate: 4
Infant mortality rate: 3
Hard numbers: 86 000 births 0 (deaths - 0 means below 1000)

straffo · « **Reply #63 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:07:59 AM »

Since when Sweden is under embargo ?

Hortlund · « **Reply #64 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:10:43 AM »

We are not. The reason I included Swedens numbers was to give a comparrisson with a "normal" country.

straffo · « **Reply #65 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:14:52 AM »

I think it's not fair we all know the high quality level of medecine/education/food in Western country

Comparing with Egypt or any country from middle west would be IMO more correct.

Hortlund · « **Reply #66 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:16:27 AM »

Straffo, if you read one of those pages I linked, you will see a graph on child mortality rate over time in Iraq. Lets just say that the numbers indicate that something happened in 1991...

straffo · « **Reply #67 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:19:28 AM »

let me guess ....

a Tsunami ?

a war ?

weazel · « **Reply #68 on:** February 17, 2003, 09:56:55 AM »

8533 deaths per month in 1999 falls well short of 30,000 per month doesn't it?

MMMMMM.....propaganda tastez guuuuuud.

Hortlund · « **Reply #69 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:35:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by weazel
8533 deaths per month in 1999 falls well short of 30,000 per month doesn't it?

MMMMMM.....propaganda tastez guuuuuud.

wow...you really are an amazinhunk. THE POINT weazel, the point is those kids die every month because of Saddam and his nuclear ambitions.

And those figures are from 99...remember that...look at the graphs...notice any trend?

Habu · « **Reply #70 on:** February 17, 2003, 07:01:04 PM »

I wonder how many wonderful hospitals could be built to save children if the oil dollars were not being misspent on palaces and the military there.

Ping · « **Reply #71 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:12:14 AM »

http://www.childinfo.org/cmr/revis/db2.htm
2001 Infant MR 105
2001 Under 5 MR 133

Tragic yes. But I invite you to look at the figures to see they are by no means the worst.

The trend from the 1960's showed that Iraq would have been in the 30's for MR if the Gulf war had not happened.

Be honest. This coming war is not for humanitarian reasons. It is merely to give the public a moral handle to grasp onto.
Sierra Leonne alone has an under 5 MR of 316.
Besides these I think I counted 9 countries that were over 200.
Count how many are 150 and higher. 26 countries.

Hortlund · « **Reply #72 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:19:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ping
http://www.childinfo.org/cmr/revis/db2.htm
2001 Infant MR 105
2001 Under 5 MR 133

Tragic yes. But I invite you to look at the figures to see they are by no means the worst.

The trend from the 1960's showed that Iraq would have been in the 30's for MR if the Gulf war had not happened.

Be honest. This coming war is not for humanitarian reasons. It is merely to give the public a moral handle to grasp onto.
Sierra Leonne alone has an under 5 MR of 316.
Besides these I think I counted 9 countries that were over 200.
Count how many are 150 and higher. 26 countries.

What are you saying? I think the figures show clearly the relationship between Saddam and CMR In Iraq. As you say, Iraq was in a very positive trend until 91, then the very positive trend switched to a very bad trend. Those rates will continue the way the are now as long as Saddam is in power, because he priortizes his WMD-program over his own population. He needs to go. Period. Everyone will benefit from that, we because it will be one less threat. Iraqis because they wont have to live under the opression of a mad dictator.

Same with N Korea, another mad dictator that prioritizes his WMDs ahead of his population. Another one that needs to go.

BUT Iraq and N Korea can prosper. They have the natural resources for that. All we need to do is remove the insane dictators. The same cannot be said about Sierra Leone for example.

Ping · « **Reply #73 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:25:34 AM »

I am arguing the Humanitarian angle and that alone. SL is a perfect example of where countries in the interest of humanity could step in to stop the slaughter and misery.

The coming war is not for the liberation of Iraqi people just as it is not about the poor innocent children.

Hortlund · « **Reply #74 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:33:28 AM »

Who said that? That is one of the positive consequences of taking out Saddam...there are hundreds of other positive consequences too. There is not one positive consequence of leaving him in power though.