Author Topic: Need help from 109Gx experten! (Read 3556 times)

DoctorYO · « **Reply #90 on:** March 26, 2003, 11:35:17 AM »

109F4 is the best to learn in.... Low engine torque lightly armed to train your gunnery... Nothing like getting a bunch of assists to motivate you to improve gunnery..

Doc's Gunnery warmup:

start your own server attack the drones from behind (counterclockwise) Open fire under 500m and repeat repeat ... until second nature..

This sims the easy 6 shots that happen to unwary prey in the MA.. This happens alot so you need this skill down... its the easiest to learn...

Now start attacking the drones from rear quarter but with say 180 deg field of fire. Using different angles each time... After about 2 minutes you should be getting some success.. pull lead turns on em, high yoyo's etc...

Now the advanced part... start attacking the drones in a clockwise motion.. this siimulates headon forward quarter attacks. With practice you will start to see some results in your gunnery skills...

Now if you having any problems with first or second part, you need to adjust your stick scale:

Exp: my 10% pull of the stick is not a 10% mine is set at like 3-5%... This allows precision movement and helps eliminate nose bounce.... and the 109 has alot

Try to turn dampening off... slows your roll rate and reaction time of stick imput to movement.. IMO = Bad.... some sticks its necessary though..

Im telling you do a tour in the 109f4 or even the g10, g6 with the base 20mm and 2 13mm you will be frustrated at first, (frustration = motivation)but as you said earlier every other plane flys like a dream... and your score and overall success in the air will improve....

Due the drills......

Doctoryo

beet1e · « **Reply #91 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:26:38 AM »

Batz, Pepe - I very much appreciate the lengths to which you have gone to explain the virtues of the 109G10. There seems to be an awful lot to it! What with rudder, trimming etc. I'm beginning to think that my stick and keyboard are not best suited to it.

When we discuss the benefits of a particular plane, the whole aim is to find a plane that works well for us. Of course, if we are truly committed, as are all the people who have made sensible posts to this thread, then we are prepared to apply the effort to develop the required skill, and not just take the easy option of Lala7 etc.

But there is some middle ground. I shall call that middle ground the area of natural ability. Oooh, getting deep! And by that I mean that there are many planes that require serious effort in order to fly them to their greatest effect, but each of us is drawn naturally to one or two types in particular. For me, that has been B&Z planes armed with .50cal. The F4U and P47 come as natural choices! With both, I don't have to worry about all that trimming (just auto speed and auto angle - that's all), so no fumbling on the keyboard. In AH, a plane like the P47D25 is moulded to whatever flight sim skills I have. It's not an easy plane, but I can use it and not have to try too hard. Of course, I shall still fly the others - 190, 109 etc., but I'm just saying that a plane like the P47 is naturally suited to me, or I to it. Yesterday I had a great time taking off from A43 (12K). The only thing I don't like about the Jug is the slow climb rate, but once it gets up there, it really shines. That's one of the reasons I like the Pizza - the high altitude gives the Jug a chance (and pisses on the LA7 parade - lol).

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
I look forward to the day I get ten kills on a single flight. Hopefully I will remember to turn on the video.

Rgr that, cpxxx. Like this?

Did it yesterday. 3-4 vulches is all. Mostly high alt B&Z with the cons thinking "it's just a Jug!".

Apar · « **Reply #92 on:** April 04, 2003, 10:19:23 AM »

HBlair:

Quote

The 109g10 is a very capable MA furballer as well as a 1v1 fighter. If flown right. The key is sticking to it, learning to deal with the compression issues and using her strengths. (she is a lady ya know)

Amen!!

And the Dora goes down in a 1v1 against the G10

beet1e · « **Reply #93 on:** April 04, 2003, 04:23:55 PM »

GRUNHERZ will be pleased to know that I have not given up on the 109Gx. I had an excellent skirmish with wrag yesterday, he in a P38L and me in the 109G10. I filmed it. I managed to win in the end but he made me work for it. See what you think. First there is the short version, which shows me moving in closer, and a bit of rolling around prior to getting a guns solution. If you would like to help me by suggesting how I might have done it better, please review the long version. It's an extra couple of minutes at the front, but shows me trying to get closer, shortening the distance between us by whatever means possible.

Ike 2K# · « **Reply #94 on:** April 05, 2003, 12:28:59 AM »

whats causing compressibility on 109s at 400mph or greater? is it the cockpit shape that is causing 109s to get little or no response to the elevators when you dive at speeds greater than 400mph?

Urchin · « **Reply #95 on:** April 05, 2003, 01:18:59 AM »

The stick doesnt generate enough force to move the elevators or ailerons at high speed. It isnt actually compressing.

wetrat · « **Reply #96 on:** April 05, 2003, 01:59:04 AM »

what urchin said

nopoop · « **Reply #97 on:** April 05, 2003, 12:35:08 PM »

Watched the long film. My question would be that at the speeds obtained in the chase why the 38 didn't "use" the 38 and put you out in front ??

Then again I rarely fly either plane. Ackack might have a comment.

Griego · « **Reply #98 on:** April 05, 2003, 04:00:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
The stick doesnt generate enough force to move the elevators or ailerons at high speed. It isnt actually compressing.

Why would trimming it make possible fly then? If the Stick doesn't generate enough force to move the elevators. Then with the use of the trim tabs you shouldn't be able to fly the plane since trim is used only to take some force off the stick.

Urchin · « **Reply #99 on:** April 05, 2003, 04:30:40 PM »

Because in the 109 trimming actually moved the tailplane, making it possible to move the elevators even when you couldnt move the stick enough to have any effect on them.

wetrat · « **Reply #100 on:** April 05, 2003, 10:35:44 PM »

what urchin said...

And beetle, I watched that film yesterday.. Why were you spraying at him from d650? You'll never do any damage from that far away

wetrat · « **Reply #101 on:** April 05, 2003, 10:49:02 PM »

Ok, just watched your film again. I'd say the only bad thing about you in that film is your gunnery... wrag didn't look very good at all, and was a running wuss. Just work on that gunnery and you'll do fine. If you still want a film I can probably find a recent one... they're all 109G2's though.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #102 on:** April 05, 2003, 10:52:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by nopoop
Watched the long film. My question would be that at the speeds obtained in the chase why the 38 didn't "use" the 38 and put you out in front ??

[/B]

Because, frankly, the 38 pilot in that film wasn't very good. He'd work into a nose-to-nose position with Beetle, but then he'd take that opportunity to run away instead of becoming aggressive. The result was that time and again, despite having neutralized Beetle's positional advantage, he would then give it up and allow Beetle onto his six to start the whole process over again.

In the final fight itself, you'll also notice that the 38 kept doing nose high turns rather than nose low to keep the fight's speed up.

-- Todd/Leviathn

beet1e · « **Reply #103 on:** April 06, 2003, 05:23:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by wetrat
what urchin said...

And beetle, I watched that film yesterday.. Why were you spraying at him from d650? You'll never do any damage from that far away

Doh! So I did. But... please have a quick look at this thread which I posted on AGW, in which I asked some old WB buddies about aspects of gunnery, and how they are modelled in AH. More than a few people would seem to believe that the AH gunnery model is porked. (Note Stiglr's comments - he makes no bones about it!) Indeed, I was posing questions about the feasibility of getting hits at 700 yards, as I had done myself (but .50s from a P47). As for getting cannon rounds on target from 600 yards, please review the AH film posted as an attachment to that thread, or download it from my webspace. That film shows me flying a F4U-1C (with cannon) and dishing out a lethal blow to an LA7 at a range of just over 600 yards!

My point is that there seems to be rather more pot luck in AH than with other sims. Let me pre-empt the obvious reaction by asking one further question: What is the difference between 109 cannon and the F4U-1C cannon, and why should the F4U cannon be consistently lethal at 600 yards and the 109 cannon be useless at that range?

Batz · « **Reply #104 on:** April 06, 2003, 05:48:27 AM »

the chog has hispanos, aka Hizookas. They have a much high velocity then the mg151 and thus have a flatter trajectory. This gives you a greater chance at hit probrability. Lw cannon are lower velocity but make up for it with mine rounds (chemical energy). All sides had HE rounds but Mgeschoss are different and contained a greater explosive content.

Basically they fly faster and "hit" harder.

I dont have time to look up the numbers but some one will or make a post on the Aircraft vehicle forum or look up some of tony williams posts.

There is a great variety with in gun types and bullet types. It would be less real to expect the same thing from all the different types.

In rl these bullets (50s and hizookas) certainly could hit at range and cause damage. But there are numerous factors that maybe arent accounted for. We have range counters, ammo counters clear unobstructed vision etc...... All intangibles that are quite hard to model.

WBs creates an artificial condition to get what they feel are more playable results. They have 80% leathality, buff tough etc. They just recently moved to 1 to 1 bullet modeling.

Yet even on AGW there are whines about range. Interestingly Tony Williams mention that range wasnt a consideration in rl in each side descision of what gun type to mount on their planes.

Most pilots were trained to fire at convergence at a given range. What 50s 303s and Hizookas allow with their flat trajectories and higher rate of fire is a greater probrability to get hits at that given range.

Also Dogfighting like we have in ah or any flight sim isnt the same. Most wouldnt fire their shots until they were in close so that the were sure they could hit. Firing out side range would tip off the attacked and if you miss he may run or you end up in a prolonged fight.

Gunnery is very difficult and it will never satisfy everyone.

But from your film I see why you need gondolas