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Author Topic: This is justice?  (Read 2140 times)

Offline Sandman

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This is justice?
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2003, 03:27:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Bullchit, just as irrelevent that he is a mulsim and and arab...  It makes an extra special victim for you...


Wow... Check out the brain on Brad. Not only can he think for himself, he can think for me too. Thanks Grun!
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sand

Offline Sandman

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This is justice?
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2003, 03:27:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Uhmm we jail tons of people for a long long time and deny them bail before they are ever convicted..


These people are at least charged with a crime.
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sand

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2003, 03:40:37 AM »
And he is being held as material witness, thats a different classifaction - no charges need to be filed as I understand it..
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2003, 03:45:34 AM »
It's a convenient label, but the man is still being held without a charge, without bail and without due process.
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sand

Offline SaburoS

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This is justice?
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2003, 03:46:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Uhmm we jail tons of people for a long long time and deny them bail before they are ever convicted..


Big difference. They are usually charged w/in the first 48-72 hours. Given their Miranda rights and given the right of councel. They are given the right to a speedy trial and in most cases (where flight risk is minimal* and not a threat to the public) they are given an opportunity to post bail until their court appearance. Most importantly those cases are public record.
Why is it necessary for you to go on the "offensive" and attack the messenger instead of arguing the issues? Are your points not strong enough to stand on their own? I don't know the person arrested. I do not care about his religeous beliefs. I do not care about his cultural/racial background.
What I care about is a fellow American citizen being detained without charges for a undetermined amount of time by our government. The fact that you and some others fail to see that is very frustrating indeed. Get over the fact that I happen to care about our Constitution, Bill of rights, and Civil Liberties for ALL AMERICANS.

**********
john9001,
You care to name even one communist nation that had/has civil liberties? Don't hold your breath searching for your answer.
Now suppose you give examples of how the ACLU is trying to strip us of our civil liberties and push us towards a communist totalitarian state.

*edited to add 'is minimal'
« Last Edit: April 06, 2003, 03:51:14 AM by SaburoS »
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Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GRUNHERZ

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This is justice?
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2003, 03:55:47 AM »
Where have I made any personal attacks in this thread?

The cosest I got to it is saying that liberals tend to fawn over certain special "victims" groups. Surely thats something you can tolerate as a general concept and take is an insult.
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Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2003, 04:02:20 AM »
Quote
Bullchit, just as irrelevent that he is a mulsim and and arab... It makes an extra special victim for you...


You somehow need to twist around facts. Where did Sandman say he was concerned because of race and religion?

But it is sooo important for you to put your spin on arguments just so you can argue against your own statements that you somehow attribute to those you argue with.
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Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GRUNHERZ

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This is justice?
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2003, 04:13:27 AM »
It does matter to liberals,  look how how he immdeiately pointed out that a white man Tim McVeigh was a terrorist - in a thread where he argues that an arab muslim man is wrongly held under suspicion of teeorism. The implication is that this man is wrongly victimized becaiuse he is an arab and a muslim.


Quote
I do not recall any 911 terrorists that were U.S. citizens. In fact, the only U.S. terrorist that comes to mind was a white guy named McVeigh.
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Offline rpm

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This is justice?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2003, 04:21:52 AM »
Wasn't this an episode of The Rockford Files?
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My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
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Offline SaburoS

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This is justice?
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2003, 04:40:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It does matter to liberals,  look how how he immdeiately pointed out that a white man Tim McVeigh was a terrorist - in a thread where he argues that an arab muslim man is wrongly held under suspicion of teeorism. The implication is that this man is wrongly victimized becaiuse he is an arab and a muslim.


Perhaps he was responding to john9001's post:

Quote
another "sleeper" gats caught

 
Seems john was implying that this American being detained was somehow part of Al Quaida being part of a "sleeper cell" because he happens to be possibly muslim and is an Arab-American. John9001 first implied the connection, not Sandman.

Looked like Sandman was responding that the actual terrorists of 9/11 were not Americans. He did state to john9001 about Tim McVeigh to perhaps refocus his attention that it's not only Arab-Americans we should be watching out for (After all it was Timothy McVeigh being responsible for the biggest terrorist attack against America by an American).

Sandman implies that a fellow American may be wrongly detained under the current situation regardless of his background and/or his beliefs.

Let's cut to the chase:
You say it's okay to detain indefinitely and without charges some fellow Americans without due process.
I say it is wrong. Even if it was you, john9001, or any "anti-civil liberties" person being detained.
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Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline SaburoS

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This is justice?
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2003, 04:49:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It does matter to liberals,  look how how he immdeiately pointed out that a white man Tim McVeigh was a terrorist - in a thread where he argues that an arab muslim man is wrongly held under suspicion of teeorism. The implication is that this man is wrongly victimized becaiuse he is an arab and a muslim.


 Why the need to paint with a broad brush? Do you even know the definition of "liberal" and "conservative"? Show me a post where your defined "liberals" show support of actual terrorists because of their being arab and/or muslim? Again, another "argument" made up attributing it to the "liberals" here.
Show me where "liberals" here supported the 9/11 terrorists. Osama Bin Laden?

Your stating it so doesn't make it so.
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Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Mini D

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This is justice?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2003, 01:15:54 PM »
An update to this...

Mike Hawash (who, quite mysteriously, looked nothing like the picture posted on the linked websight because the site authors believed that his current appearance would cause people to jump to conclusions) plead guilty to conspiring to fight U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan.  The group he was with attempted to get into Afghanistan through China but were unable to because of restrictions.  All 7 plead guilty.

Not a single website listed in this thread (or via google search) mentions the guilty plea nor the evidence and the charges.

MiniD
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 06:25:55 PM by Mini D »
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Offline Batz

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This is justice?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2003, 01:28:19 PM »
thanks for the update.

The question is "How will Sandman rationalize his guilty plea?"
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Offline Urchin

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This is justice?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2003, 01:38:41 PM »
Why was he held as a material witness at first then?  Why not charge him with a crime straightaway?
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Offline GtoRA2

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This is justice?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2003, 01:52:41 PM »
Maybe he claimed to have info about the others?


Hmmm what a ****ing scumbag.
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