Author Topic: Germany Owes the World an Apology!  (Read 3971 times)

Offline Bodhi

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Germany Owes the World an Apology!
« Reply #165 on: April 08, 2003, 11:04:02 PM »
Sandman,

those quotes mean nothing especially in the context of that article.  It is more liberal jibberish from the king of liberal jibberish, the Washington Post.  Umm, lets see, DOW Chemical sold them pesticides????  Gee, I can think of lots of reasons to have them, like for crops and such, and to think they could actually kill you... well wtf are pesticides supposed to do?  Make ya feel good.  Get better proof than this hooplah liberal spwe.
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #166 on: April 08, 2003, 11:25:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
I have shown you that we have not.  You have yet to show me that I am mistaken.


You have done nothing of the sort.  You have attempted to debate, that the US is not in violation of 1441 because the sovereignty of Iraq belongs to it's people, while your definition clearly says nothing of the kind.

You have not even touched upon the US being in violation of UN charter.

Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Now herein lies the problem......

Thrawn and others here believe the US can only act outside of it's own borders with permission from the UNSC....they seem to believe in a one world government system under which the US and it's interests are nuetered.


Rude, just to clarify.  I realise that the US certainly can act as it is doing.  What I am arguing is that the US can only go to war for the reasons stated in the UN charter because the US is a signatory of it.  And if it choses not to follow the follow the UN charter than the US is in violation of international law as the Charter is an international agreement between nation states.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #167 on: April 08, 2003, 11:29:23 PM »
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/us_iraq_history_1_020917.html


The U.S. supported Saddam throughout (and after) the 1980-88 war with Iran. This is fact.
sand

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #168 on: April 08, 2003, 11:32:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/us_iraq_history_1_020917.html


The U.S. supported Saddam throughout (and after) the 1980-88 war with Iran. This is fact.


We still owe Iran an bellybutton kicking and we may have to deliver some day.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #169 on: April 09, 2003, 01:27:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
You have done nothing of the sort.  You have attempted to debate, that the US is not in violation of 1441 because the sovereignty of Iraq belongs to it's people, while your definition clearly says nothing of the kind.

You have not even touched upon the US being in violation of UN charter.

.


You sound like a broken record.  I  most certainly have.  Arguing with you is like arguing with my 3 year old niece.  When you say "no, here's why" she plugs her ears and screams, then asks "why" again.

Seriously, spring for an education.

Offline Bodhi

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Germany Owes the World an Apology!
« Reply #170 on: April 09, 2003, 07:24:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
The U.S. supported Saddam throughout (and after) the 1980-88 war with Iran. This is fact.



This has never been the argument, of course we supported Sadaam during the Iran-Iraq wars.  We were stupid not too.  Hell even the Russians were hesitant of support for the Iranians, and rightfully so.  Had the US not supported the Iraqi military during that war, then the whole region would be one gigantic Iran, and we all know how pleasant they are?!?!  


The argument that is still on the table though, is WHICH (and / or IF) US companies supplied WMD's to the Iraqi regime.  And no, pesticides do not count.  Christ, just because my neighbor bought 10 tons of ammonium nitrate, does not mean he plans on blowing up a building in Oklahoma City, to the educated who see he has 1900 acres of land to fertilize....  well, I can not educate a liberal.
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Offline Dowding

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Germany Owes the World an Apology!
« Reply #171 on: April 09, 2003, 07:57:00 AM »
It doesn't wash Bodhi. US chemical companies (DuPont etc) were selling chemical weapon precursors to Iraq before, during and after Iraq had deployed chemical weapons against the Iranians and Kurds. Saddam's regime was transparent in it's brutality and intentions - everyone knew how Saddam would use those chemicals.

At best, the export of the chemicals was naive. If that is the case, then it's the greatest case of naivety since the people of Troy decided that a giant wooden horse would look really cool in the centre of their city.

How Saddam Happened - Senate Proceedings
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Offline blitz

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« Reply #172 on: April 09, 2003, 09:03:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
It doesn't wash Bodhi. US chemical companies (DuPont etc) were selling chemical weapon precursors to Iraq before, during and after Iraq had deployed chemical weapons against the Iranians and Kurds. Saddam's regime was transparent in it's brutality and intentions - everyone knew how Saddam would use those chemicals.

At best, the export of the chemicals was naive. If that is the case, then it's the greatest case of naivety since the people of Troy decided that a giant wooden horse would look really cool in the centre of their city.

How Saddam Happened - Senate Proceedings




Naive? With all their intelligence? Doubt that dowding.


"Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.

The story of U.S. involvement with Saddam Hussein in the years before his 1990 attack on Kuwait -- which included large-scale intelligence sharing, supply of cluster bombs through a Chilean front company, and facilitating Iraq's acquisition of chemical and biological precursors -- is a topical example of the underside of U.S. foreign policy. It is a world in which deals can be struck with dictators, human rights violations sometimes overlooked, and accommodations made with arms proliferators, all on the principle that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Throughout the 1980s, Hussein's Iraq was the sworn enemy of Iran, then still in the throes of an Islamic revolution. U.S. officials saw Baghdad as a bulwark against militant Shiite extremism and the fall of pro-American states such as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and even Jordan -- a Middle East version of the "domino theory" in Southeast Asia. That was enough to turn Hussein into a strategic partner and for U.S. diplomats in Baghdad to routinely refer to Iraqi forces as "the good guys," in contrast to the Iranians, who were depicted as "the bad guys."

A review of thousands of declassified government documents and interviews with former policymakers shows that U.S. intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defenses against the "human wave" attacks by suicidal Iranian troops. The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague."


Regards Blitz




America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'


When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?

Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :

Their pride

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #173 on: April 09, 2003, 09:09:32 AM »
I believe that we do owe south vietnam an apolodgy... we left them to be slaughtered by the commies.

Such a shame... we coulda done what we did in iraq there if we had had the will.
lazs

Offline Bodhi

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Germany Owes the World an Apology!
« Reply #174 on: April 09, 2003, 09:42:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
It doesn't wash Bodhi. US chemical companies (DuPont etc) were selling chemical weapon precursors to Iraq before, during and after Iraq had deployed chemical weapons against the Iranians and Kurds. Saddam's regime was transparent in it's brutality and intentions - everyone knew how Saddam would use those chemicals.


Yet again, no one provides a whim of proof, other than generalisations as to who, or specifically WHICH companies are responsible.  And don't get me started on Blitz's paranoidical delusions.  He reads one liberal article and thinks he knows who shot Kennedy.
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #175 on: April 09, 2003, 10:03:25 PM »
Here ya go,  Bodhi.
 
 

"During the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq received the lion's share of American support because at the time Iran was regarded as the greater threat to U.S. interests. According to a 1994 Senate report, private American suppliers, licensed by the U.S. Department of Commerce, exported a witch's brew of biological and chemical materials to Iraq from 1985 through 1989. Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing death, were:

* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.


* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.


* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.


* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.


* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.


* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.

Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human and bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents. "These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction," the Senate report stated. "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

The report noted further that U.S. exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical-warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment.

The exports continued to at least November 28, 1989, despite evidence that Iraq was engaging in chemical and biological warfare against Iranians and Kurds since as early as 1984.

The American company that provided the most biological materials to Iraq in the 1980s was American Type Culture Collection of Maryland and Virginia, which made seventy shipments of the anthrax-causing germ and other pathogenic agents, according to a 1996 Newsday story.

Other American companies also provided Iraq with the chemical or biological compounds, or the facilities and equipment used to create the compounds for chemical and biological warfare. Among these suppliers were the following:

* Alcolac International, a Baltimore chemical manufacturer already linked to the illegal shipment of chemicals to Iran, shipped large quantities of thiodiglycol (used to make mustard gas) as well as other chemical and biological ingredients, according to a 1989 story in The New York Times.


* Nu Kraft Mercantile Corp. of Brooklyn (affiliated with the United Steel and Strip Corporation) also supplied Iraq with huge amounts of thiodiglycol, the Times reported.


* Celery Corp., Charlotte, NC


* Matrix-Churchill Corp., Cleveland, OH (regarded as a front for the Iraqi government, according to Representative Henry Gonzalez, Democrat of Texas, who quoted U.S. intelligence documents to this effect in a 1992 speech on the House floor).

The following companies were also named as chemical and biological materials suppliers in the 1992 Senate hearings on "United States export policy toward Iraq prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait":

* Mouse Master, Lilburn, GA


* Sullaire Corp., Charlotte, NC


* Pure Aire, Charlotte, NC


* Posi Seal, Inc., N. Stonington, CT


* Union Carbide, Danbury, CT


* Evapco, Taneytown, MD


* Gorman-Rupp, Mansfield, OH "

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #176 on: April 09, 2003, 10:04:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Quit whining about morality.

The US is accusing Iraq for violating UN decisions, and right after then attacking Iraq in direct violation of the UN itself.



Pardon me but what's the direct violation of the UN you speak of?  Please name it.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #177 on: April 10, 2003, 08:13:34 AM »
Thrawn,

I appreciate ya cutting and pasting it, but would you provide a link to where you found that information?  And please tell me it was not the Washington Post....
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Offline Dowding

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« Reply #178 on: April 10, 2003, 08:27:43 AM »
Did you even read the link I posted? It's all there for you - a long detailed transcript from the Senate on the subject.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #179 on: April 10, 2003, 08:33:20 AM »
Dowding I read a horrible job of reporting and summarizing that was a Washington Post Article that you put up there...  Get real, black and white does not mean go to the Washington Post where they quote and twist their reporting so badly even you liberals look good.

:rolleyes:
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